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Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

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Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#171

Post by OP9000 »

iambateman wrote: post #33

Serious questions...if you’ve used an opioid more than once for recreational purposes, I’d like to hear (1) what prompted you to try it (2) how old you were (3) cost (4) where did you get them (5) why did you stop Treat me like an idiot, I don’t understand this stuff and I’d like to know more. * obviously feel free to use a burner account if you’d rather not speak publicly.

1. Typical prescription route. Thought I'd "never" do heroin. Tolerance grew and grew, and after realizing it was basically morphine (which, I had had prescribed before), it seemed less scary. I didn't seek it out, but literally found a gram on the ground and immediately realized that this was the best ROI for releasing pain (both the physical pain and the pain of living.)

2. 22

3. Currently can get a really good quality (lab tested) gram for $50; this is cartel type pricing

4. Doctor, darknet, in person

5. I haven't. I should, most likely. I should let my tolerance go down but I'm so, so scared to be stuck in bed with pain off the charts combined with the temporary depression.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#172

Post by mirimir »

justinjlynn wrote: post #165
mirimir wrote: post #162

This is just so sad. It costs less to prescribe drugs than to diagnose and treat underlying problems. So the American profit-driven medical system relies heavily on drugs, especially for poorer patients. And drug companies love addictive drugs. So we get lots of opiate-addicted patients. And then there's the "drugs are evil" mindset, which justifies criminalization. Even preventing pain is too much like having fun. S…

I honestly don't understand what kind of solution you're proposing. Would you mind briefly expanding on your statements?

1) Properly treat people's medical problems, rather than just prescribing drugs.

2) Give safe drugs to addicts. Anonymously. Offer help, but don't force anything.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#173

Post by barrkel »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #151
throwa_way_ wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a well designed study and it's one that hasn't replicated well. But people still love bringing it up, especially here on HN where people seem to think they know better than the experts on everything to do with medicine.

Some sources on this? I’d love to read more.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/25/against-rat-park/ has links, e.g.:

http://sci-hub.io/10.2466/pr0.1996.78.2.391

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2616610

But there are other studies linked that seem to confirm it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3696469

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18463628

Not sure where that leaves us.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#174

Post by oliwarner »

jrowley wrote: post #9

Just the other morning I got off of bart in downtown Oakland, 12th street and there was a guy just laid out, unresponsive right on the steps outside the station. He had smoked something out of a can. I stuck with the guy while the paramedics came, but the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on. When the paramedics took off his shirt he still had adhesive on his skin from the EKG straps…

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back.

The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalence (through overuse).

You've got to wonder what a regulated generally-available recreational opiate could do for street safety. It's not just about making sure of the purity, we need help people take the right dose of the right things, so they're not just taking however much of whatever is available.

That, and weaning. I'm sure a lot of these people would prefer not to feel like they do. Quitting opiates cold turkey is not easy.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#175

Post by Shivetya »

mirimir wrote: post #172
justinjlynn wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand what kind of solution you're proposing. Would you mind briefly expanding on your statements?

1) Properly treat people's medical problems, rather than just prescribing drugs. 2) Give safe drugs to addicts. Anonymously. Offer help, but don't force anything.

Well I think for #1 we need to understand how many got on this path from a medical provider. We cannot just assume the epidemic is the result of bad diagnoses. The numbers are just too high. It is just more likely that the price point reached for this strong of a drug and the ability to get it to users reached critical mass.

with regards to #2, it would good to know death rates and severe medical incident numbers in any localities to see how much of an effect such an approach is having.

#3 should be requiring all police departments having the training and recovery drugs necessary to pull someone out of an overdose along with no charges being filed for any parties involved in such a call.

this problem has been around a long time and only recently was it even addressed at the highest levels. it seemed like the problem everyone wanted to ignore

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#176

Post by erasmuse »

jakevn wrote: post #107
matwood wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how people move to something like heroin after being on pain meds and getting addicted, but who really just 'tries' heroin? At this point, the mix danger and addiction danger is well known and publicized. I'm asking, because I cannot mentally put it together, particularly if someone has life going in the right direction.

There are people that do base jumping that are otherwise well adjusted adults. It’s very dangerous and no level of expertise reduces that danger. Some people are just attracted to the crazy unknown. Many can’t believe they could become addicts because they’ve never been addicted. Others still don’t care because they’re just one step removed from suicide.

>Some people are just attracted to the crazy unknown

Yes. "Find what you love and let it kill you" somebody said. And most people don't feel safe unless they're living fearfully close to the edge of what is possible for them. In the past men worked till they dropped dead in their 40s to keep their families alive through the winter; women had baby after baby until they died or couldn't otherwise cope.

The strange thing is that, absent those harsh historical conditions, people still want the feeling of an edge, an existential risk. So they gamble, they do drugs, etc.

But these aren't good edges to be on. There are many real, urgent problems the world faces that could benefit from obsessive, risk-seeking commitment to the 'crazy unknown'. Addiction-level commitment. It shouldn't have to be to drugs. How do we funnel ourselves towards these problems?

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#177

Post by toyg »

BenchRouter wrote: post #93
jstarfish wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry to hear. Partaking in heavy drugs to any degree invites those dark unknowns. The number of hands these drugs pass through to reach the end-user is more than a couple. I recall on average it's 8 different turnovers. Each time, likely being cut down. They operate a margin business without concern for where it ends up. It's likely safe to say that a vast majority of drugs are cut these days. Drugs have always be…

> Historically it was just cut with OTCs or detritus, which was a problem that could be solved in most cases by simply doing more. Well, until you get a more pure batch and you try to do the same amount you do with the dilute batch.

This is how prohibition is killing people: by removing any sort of quality control for the customer. You can die by drinking bad wine or eating contaminated food, but we have processes and laws that make sure wine is done properly and food is not contaminated, so the consumer knows that, when she buys pasta, it's going to be pasta, not a bunch of random chemicals that look like pasta and might taste somewhat like pasta. Can you imagine buying unlabeled pasta from a shady guy in an industrial estate near a plant manufacturing yellow plastic? That's what buying drugs is today, thanks to prohibition.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#178

Post by aburner »

iambateman wrote: post #33

Serious questions...if you’ve used an opioid more than once for recreational purposes, I’d like to hear (1) what prompted you to try it (2) how old you were (3) cost (4) where did you get them (5) why did you stop Treat me like an idiot, I don’t understand this stuff and I’d like to know more. * obviously feel free to use a burner account if you’d rather not speak publicly.

OK, I'll bite.

I take milder prescription opiates just for fun on rare occasion. That's percocet these days, codeine back in the day.

Only opportunistically though, if I have some left over from a medical reason or someone offers me some. Even then, it's very infrequently. I currently have around 12 percocets that have been sitting around, untouched, for a couple of months now.

I usually don't feel like just lying around and staring at the TV with my mouth open, hence I don't take them. One day though I'm sure I will feel exactly like doing that, at which point might as well add some opiates to make it quite a bit more enjoyable. I usually like to take 2 or 3 with a moderate amount of alcohol, they have a synergistic effect together.

I first tried it around 17, and that was almost 20 years ago. We're talking relatively few occasions over all that time: 0-2 occasions most years, some years more like 4-6, and rarely if ever 6+. I've never seeked it out on the black market or anything; the cost would not be close to worth it, I think. I don't know how much exactly, but surely several times more than medical, where I paid $10 for 20 pills.

I didn't stop, I just don't feel like doing them, most of the time. I have had issues with addiction to other things in the past, but not with these.

That being said, they are quite mild compared to OxyContin, which I think is what most addicts are taking. (Same substance, oxycodone, but much lower dose.) Never tried that stuff but I bet it is a LOT easier to get into trouble with those.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#179

Post by Feniks »

My country had a heroine epidemic in the 80s and early 90s. One of the root causes was a shitty economy and chronic unemployment.

All you can do in the end is try to keep things contained. They opened special places were junkies could use their drugs so that they wouldn't have to OD on the streets.

You can't fix someone unless they WANT to be fixed.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#180

Post by kakarot »

jrowley wrote: post #9

Just the other morning I got off of bart in downtown Oakland, 12th street and there was a guy just laid out, unresponsive right on the steps outside the station. He had smoked something out of a can. I stuck with the guy while the paramedics came, but the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on. When the paramedics took off his shirt he still had adhesive on his skin from the EKG straps…

> the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on.

Oh my god. I bet you had to stifle tears at this point. It sounds like something you would see in a movie, with the last cut of the scene slowly bringing the bracelet into focus just long enough for you to realize why he was wearing it.

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