I visited China for a month and my view is limited, but i do not think the average Chen in China cares about this, just like the average John in America doesn't. They are happy to be able to grow their personal GDP as much as they can. A lot of people there are part of the waves of the population that are provided incentives to relocate from rural areas to urban areas. Censorship is their least concern. They are happy to be able to have access to new products and start businesses and help their kids develop as best they can. Throughout my travels in other countries in Asia, i met a few students which will be going to Chinese universities. One of their reasons was that Chinese universities have bigger budgets for research compared to their respective countries. So that was highly attractive to them in their educational development. From walking around i got the impression that China inflates their GDP by constant construction and tear down and construction again. I am inclined to believe that this happens also in the tech industry. This churn creates jobs, companies in a loop and makes the economy look stronger that it actually is. I also saw many empty apartments and was told about this as well. Imagine how much money China would loose if people would solely use western alternatives of the apps they currently use. This GDP churn they have going there could not be done if your population is using solely western products. I do think there is an economic reason as well. I happen to like WeChat, you can do many things with it. I watched this dude i met there buy a hat from a street vendor and payed her with the app, super easy. The convenience that is baked in that app is awesome. I wish we had something like that in the US.
China Blocks WhatsApp
191–200 of 648 posts
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…
Another alternative is that you may get a Galapagos island effect where Chinese firms do innovate, but their innovation is tied to the cultural and regulatory norms and not very applicable outside of China. The same effect was seen with Japanese cell phone companies pre-smartphone era.
If Chinese start an economic and cultural expansion which includes PRing their culture, movies, tech, products and building special relationships with developing world in Asia, Africa, south American and Europe they may end up being the globalization leader.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…
I don't think it'll be a contradiction for China to create a special city with more liberal values to attract liberal talent, or if China permits liberalism in a controlled context. Tech talent such as Andrew Ng already go to work in China knowing the political context surrounding China. I'm sure some HN people go to work in Dubai, which I'm sure has some contradictions to western cultural values. I'm also not sure i…
> I don't think it'll be a contradiction for China to create a special city with more liberal values to attract liberal talent, or if China permits liberalism in a controlled context.
Hong Kong has been the test laboratory for what the Communist Party calls “One country, two systems”. It doesn’t seem like the regime is very happy with the experiment, or would be looking to expand it.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#194This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" * Gmail worked fine I returned in early 2017, oh god what a change: * Don't even think about Facebook * Ironically Facebook messenger worked until my session expired * No gmail, google at all (don't remember about Wikipedia) * Whatsapp worked fin…
I have a friend who's been in China for the last year. Been talking with him on Facebook Messenger the whole time...
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another alternative is that you may get a Galapagos island effect where Chinese firms do innovate, but their innovation is tied to the cultural and regulatory norms and not very applicable outside of China. The same effect was seen with Japanese cell phone companies pre-smartphone era.
But the effect was the complete opposite with Japanese car companies, which ended up being in massive competition with the US industry. (with ups and downs on both sides)
And leading in many other industries too, like robotics and video games.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#196It makes sense, as a country you wouldn’t want US companies taking over your social media. It’s only alarming from a US centric view.
Countries may not want it exactly but most will go nowhere near blocking it. Or else every country but the USA would be blocking Facebook.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
They already have an alternative it's called WeChat. Maybe other people should install that instead?
It's way more powerful than WhatsApp, too (location based chats, payments, etc.). And, of course, it's not E2E encrypted; just the opposite, you can assume that it's being wiretapped/monitored. Thus, please don't install it.
WeChat acknowledged the monitoring :(
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/companies/wechat-c...
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Completely agree that they will further cement their power, but it won't be at the cost of innovation and growth IMO. China's access to leading technologies and technologists is absolutely unparalleled. The amount of Chinese students that are publishing some of the leading CS and ML research from the best universities and corporations worldwide is staggering when compared to all other nations. China isn't 'Closing up…
> The amount of Chinese students that are publishing... That's the thing. These are mostly overseas Chinese working for US/European companies who have no desire to return to China. Talk to any of them, and they're always concerned about the status of their visa and are ecstatic when they become a citizen of a democracy. > China isn't 'Closing up' they are pushing people to use the services Tencent and Baidu are used…
> who have no desire to return to China.
My understanding was that increasingly, overseas students are returning to China? (known as "hai gui", sea turtles)
See e.g. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-03/18/content_239314...
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. So in other words, the ruling class continues to rule, as they will be the only ones with the sanctioned political freedoms to study abroad, etc. > China's fate as being relegated to being the world's giant copy machine is sealed unless things revert China being the world's giant…
China is still very poor. The Chinese rural households have a per capita income of only 9,892 yuan – about $4 dollars a day. and there's 680 million of these rural households still. Chinese urban households have only a per capita income of 29,831 yuan – an abysmal $4,500 a year. https://geopoliticalfutures.com/china-is-still-really-poor/ And we see the effects of poverty on education: "Surveys by Rozelle's team have…
> And we see the effects of poverty on education: "Surveys by Rozelle's team have found that more than half of eighth graders in poor rural areas in China have IQs below 90, leaving them struggling to keep up with the fast-paced official curriculum"
Just remember that we do not measure in the US IQ these days because the results would be very painful to look at for the poor of the US.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#200I don't get how China can have WTO "Market Economy" status. It's not just blocking western internet companies, also forced joint ventures and technology transfers don't sound much like "Market Economy" to me.... :-/
Developing nations get a lot of leeway - see India's FDI restrictions, etc.