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Why I left Japan after 10 years

blog.uchujin.co.uk

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Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#191

Post by watwut »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #70
EliRivers wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that he is serious. You knew that already. Perhaps you disagree? Perhaps you can present your own findings and contribute to the discussion? Based on my own fairly limited experience in Japan, English as learned in school doesn't seem to translate (a ha ha) into effective English conversation. It seems that an academic rigor is taught (no bad thing, of course) but practical conversation skills are neglected.

I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling. It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies, or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours learning a skill that does not provide any significant ben…

If you spent six years learning English and can not have basic functional conversation in English, then the education is bad. For people who managed to learn foreign language with better method, shocking bad.

It should be ok to criticize foreign school system when it seems to unperform.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#192

Post by bojo »

fiblye wrote: post #157
brucephillips wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

It highly depends on the city. In Kyoto, people only speak to me in English. I've even seen asians get talked to in English there when their fashion/behavior stands out as slightly non-Japanese. Everywhere else, I get straight, everyday Japanese thrown at me. Honestly, it could very well depend on the city how you get received. I live in a fairly rural area and it's adapt or go home here. If you live in this area, pe…

This has been my experience here in Osaka. Even though there were dozens of other Japanese around, an old man walked up and asked me in Japanese if I knew where the closest ATM for his particular bank was.

I'm not entirely sure what it is, but I think you eventually hit a threshold where you are somehow signaling via body language or manner that, as you say, you don't need to be handled like an outsider.

Edit: I just noticed I have replied to you twice. We seem to be on the same page :)

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#193

Post by [deleted] »

ancarda wrote: post #137
fleitz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood what's wrong with voting with your feet. Reminds me of how the people most dissatisfied with their jobs stay the longest

Sometimes you can't. More than anything else I wish I could just get on a plane and move to America but I can't because I'm not eligible for any visas. My company tried to relocate me and the immigration lawyer we hired basically said "can't happen, sorry". I did lots of research and I'm nowhere close to ticking enough boxes to do it. I'm currently trying to apply to University, with no idea how I'll afford it, to do…

[deleted]

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#194

Post by Klockan »

markburns wrote: post #184
Klockan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were born and brought up in Japan Those two are the same, if you are born and brought up in Japan then you are Japanese. Similarly if you are born and brought up in America then you are an American even if you happen to look like most people do in Japan. Do you disagree with this? Can immigrants from Japan never become true Amer…

I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time. The simplified version of there being eight permutations of being racially/nationally/culturally Japanese are lost on a lot of people.…

> I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time.

I know. Now that you are aware that this is a problem could you extend the same courtesy to the author of this article?

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#195

Post by mejin »

ancarda wrote: post #137
fleitz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood what's wrong with voting with your feet. Reminds me of how the people most dissatisfied with their jobs stay the longest

Sometimes you can't. More than anything else I wish I could just get on a plane and move to America but I can't because I'm not eligible for any visas. My company tried to relocate me and the immigration lawyer we hired basically said "can't happen, sorry". I did lots of research and I'm nowhere close to ticking enough boxes to do it. I'm currently trying to apply to University, with no idea how I'll afford it, to do…

So you can't go to America. There are probably other decent countries that will accept you. You can start a business in Hungry for 5000 eur and get permanent residency. The question is, is your current place of residence better than any other place that will accept you? If so, where you are probably isn't that bad. If not, you can vote with your feet.

Yes, it may be annoying that America won't accept you, but that doesn't mean you don't have any options.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#196

Post by glandium »

patio11 wrote: post #154

I have had approximately 10 involuntary interactions with the Japanese cops over the years. Here's my typical advice for foreign residents: you can pick your battles but you can't pick your police counterparties. The overwhelming likelihood if you are arbitrarily stopped by a police officer is that you were stopped for a reason which is outside the parameters of the law. Being vindicated by the law is something which…

Note this is not exclusive to Japan.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#197

Post by honestoHeminway »

amiga-workbench wrote: post #64
collyw wrote: post #54

Sounds like Japanese are happy with their culture and don't want it changed especially not by foreigners. It seems like a reasonable enough position, but I wonder if there a way to express this desire in a way that couldn't easily be criticized as being "xenopohbic"? Is there something inherently wrong with this attitude? (I personally wouldn't want to be a foreigner living there is what he describes is true, but no…

It doesn't ring as being particularly Xenophobic to me, they just have a strong cultural backbone unlike the west. I wouldn't even consider moving to another country unless I was prepared to integrate and abide by cultural norms.

Congratulations, in the west, you wont have too.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#198

Post by watwut »

fpig wrote: post #169
Kurtz79 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling. It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies, or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours learning a skill that does not provide any significant ben…

> I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling. I've noticed the opposite attitude. At least among western countries, the opposition to forcing kids to learn English seems to be far more prevalent among Americans and Brits than among non-anglophones. In my country, English is mandatory in both primary and secondary education and th…

Pretty much agree. Knowing English if you are not from America is super important - you are limited a lot if you don't know it. Maybe not if you work in agriculture or something like that, but anything beyond that requires it.

And that is just talking about jobs. Wast amount of knowledge and entertainment is not translated to smaller languages and discussion happen in English. Especially in less popular areas.

Includes science and technology btw. If you can not read English blog or documentation, then you will be limited as a programmer.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#199

Post by taneq »

brucephillips wrote: post #73
taneq wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we're entering into a debate of whether perfectly rational behaviour should be eschewed in favour of virtue signalling.

You think the desire to protect individuals from racism is merely virtue signalling?

Only if (as in this case) it discards the other side of the debate, which is the desire to protect individuals from harm predominantly perpetrated by a particular demographic.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#200

Post by kire456 »

fleitz wrote: post #97
mrkrabo wrote: post #33

I can understand, bicyclists are fucking annoying, and most of the time they are putting themselves and others in danger. For me, the road is no place for a bicyclist. And, as you can see, there's no possible debate in the west: you have to have bicyclists, otherwise you're a backwards asshole. And I have to live with that, because that's society: you have to deal with people who don't think the way you do. (You just…

Yeah the number of times I've been yelled at by cyclists for getting into accidents caused by breaking the law is rediculous. Hey fuck heads I could give a shit if I kill you when you run a red. If you don't want to be killed don't run red lights, I don't do it and I have a 4x4. Also if I'm in the right lane with my turn signal on it means I'm turning right, don't try to pass me in the slow lane fuck wit.

Just curious - where I live, traffic going straight has priority over traffic turning or leaving the road in some way. So if the bike lane is to the right of the car lanes, the cars have to yield to bikes if turning right (in fact, they have to yield to pedestrians that cross the side road as well). Is this different in the US? (Am I assuming a bike lane that isn't actually there?)
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