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Why I left Japan after 10 years

blog.uchujin.co.uk

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Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#61

Post by ekianjo »

JMCQ87 wrote: post #43
drops wrote: post #30

>The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying it for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low >I honestly think it is kept deliberately low Is this guy serious?

Do you think that's an outrageous idea? I imagine lots of (young) Japanese people would look for better working conditions abroad, if they only had better English skills.

> I imagine lots of (young) Japanese people would look for better working conditions abroad, if they only had better English skills.

AS they don't put intent where the fault is rather at how piss poor people are at doing things. Maybe there is some small part of intent (I live in Japan though and there's a never ending feed of companies that want to teach you proper english everywhere) but I rather suspect that the Japanese education system is just very poor at teaching language in general (and not just English), and that's certainly not limited to Japan.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#62

Post by amake »

> I can speak a reasonable level of Japanese

This stands out to me. Raising your spoken Japanese from "reasonable" to "excellent" (especially with regards to accent) makes a huge difference in how people interact with you. Likewise a high level of literacy is required as well to navigate daily life without stress. (Of course if you live in an English bubble then YMMV.)

Anecdotally, I rarely see these Japan ragequits among people with high-level language skills.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#63

Post by gbog »

brucephillips wrote: post #49
markburns wrote: post #34

It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people. See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than the individual. It's an easy mistake to make. Especially if you do ever hear it in the inverse direction. "Foreigners do X or Y", etc. If he aimed to replace generic instances of 'Japanese people' or 'in Japan' with specific reference to the instance or person, I think he'd have h…

> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generall…

Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan.

In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way of life. I've been working in a Chinese company since 6 years and never heard any critique or irony or any other form of explicit negative comment, even about competitor products. That is just not how you do it there. There are many other ways to express your personal preferences. If in ten years you don't get this, you just better go back home earlier.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#64

Post by amiga-workbench »

collyw wrote: post #54

Sounds like Japanese are happy with their culture and don't want it changed especially not by foreigners. It seems like a reasonable enough position, but I wonder if there a way to express this desire in a way that couldn't easily be criticized as being "xenopohbic"? Is there something inherently wrong with this attitude? (I personally wouldn't want to be a foreigner living there is what he describes is true, but no…

It doesn't ring as being particularly Xenophobic to me, they just have a strong cultural backbone unlike the west.

I wouldn't even consider moving to another country unless I was prepared to integrate and abide by cultural norms.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#65

Post by valentinebm »

Quick remark: the Chinese text on the 5th picture (below 'JAPANESE ONLY') reads '謝絕中中國人'. This literally means 'Decline Chinese people', suggesting that the place is specifically not willing to receive to Chinese visitors.

Thought it might be interesting to point out.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#66

Post by buserror »

romanovcode wrote: post #26

White text on black background - what a horrible choice of colours. Cannot read it for more than 3 minutes.

Right click background, 'Inspect Element' in Chrome, and go unclick all the color properties. And yes, I agree, white on black is always terrible on the eyes!

As far as Japan goes, I've never been there, but I interacted/worked with many and I have to say the only thing that I still find quite disturbing is the 'Yes' problem. I remember extensive engineering meeting where everyone 'Agreed' and a week later, you realized actually they didn't really mean 'yes' when they agreed. Fun.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#67

Post by yorwba »

arnioxux wrote: post #23

The "JAPANESE ONLY" sign was probably meant for chinese tourists. The kanji below it, "謝绝中国人", translates roughly to "decline chinese people" which is understandable given their notorious behavior abroad: http://shanghaiist.com/2016/12/30/shanghaiist_2016_embarrass... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/world/asia/bad-manners-ch... http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/10/07/commentary/wo...

"謝绝中国人" doesn't match what I know about Japanese grammar, but does match Chinese grammar. So I would expect the bilingual sign to be directed towards all foreigners. Once in English ("Japanese only") for everyone who speaks it, and once in Chinese to directly address Chinese tourists (who might not speak English).

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#68

Post by brucephillips »

gbog wrote: post #63
brucephillips wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generall…

Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way o…

> except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan

Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#69

Post by lkramer »

I lived in Japan for 4 years, and afterwards felt in many ways similar, it's a place that can take a lot out of you, especially if you have expectations of fitting in.

That said, in my 4 years there, the police was never anything but polite and friendly (I was never once stopped for a bag search or gaijin card check either) and now living in London, I find the police here, while polite and professional, much more intimidating with their open carry of massive guns. (This is not to excuse the very real problems with judicial fairness that have been well documented elsewhere).

I think everybody's experience is different, but most foreigners I know who's stayed there long term does seem to develop a sort of exhaustion with the place.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#70

Post by Kurtz79 »

EliRivers wrote: post #44
drops wrote: post #30

>The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying it for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low >I honestly think it is kept deliberately low Is this guy serious?

It seems that he is serious. You knew that already. Perhaps you disagree? Perhaps you can present your own findings and contribute to the discussion? Based on my own fairly limited experience in Japan, English as learned in school doesn't seem to translate (a ha ha) into effective English conversation. It seems that an academic rigor is taught (no bad thing, of course) but practical conversation skills are neglected.

I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling.

It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies, or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours learning a skill that does not provide any significant benefit in their daily lives.

You are absolutely correct that the English taught is school is nearly useless, considering that in those 6 years my guess that English is taught some 2-3 hours per week.

I would be curious to know how many people in US or UK consider themselves fluent in a foreign language for a class they took for a few years in middle/high school.

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