Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 265 posts

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#191

Post by drewmol »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #19
coldtea wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found the faith in the revered interpretations of some constitutional document written centuries ago, and the respect for the "Founding Fathers" not as historical figures, but as some kind of guiding lights for today, totally bizarro. Even the name "Founding Fathers" and the way it's thrown around seems quite bizarre for a democracy. It's the people, and the will of the people, that should be respected, not…

The will of the people on 2001-09-12 would be to get rid of jury trials and allow arbitrary searches and seizures. People are emotional and dumb, and sometimes it is helpful to build an intentional slowness into the process. If it's truly the will of the people, you should have no problem getting 2/3 of Congress to agree on it, followed by 3/4 of state legislatures.

I agree, pasted from a comment I made in a thread on a Western Union wire fraud case earlier this year:

"those who may be unfamiliar: look into the passing of the USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act passed shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, a bill of over 2000 pages which was rushed through congress in span of a few days from finalization to ratification under the prosumtion of necessity to provide the tools to combat terrorism. It stripped away many powers of the judicial branch to provide oversight, and provisions intended to be 'temporary' have been continually extended by presidents (executive branch) on both sides of the aisle since."

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#192

Post by keithnz »

humanrebar wrote: post #154
vivekd wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil. Norse mythology was never like that. Norse mythology was never like that. There was no evil devil. The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What? Why do people say stuff like this? The Norse myths were from a millennium ago, no one has believed in them for almost a thousand years. Maybe Norway is largely atheistic now but for the majori…

It's also bad understanding of Christian theology. > Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil. No, it's mostly focused on the contrast between being a follower of Christ or not. To that end, the character of God and Jesus are elaborated on at length. So subjects like "good" and "evil" come up as a part of that. Yes, Christ is described as being intrinsically good, but the end goal isn't to: * do goo…

It really doesn't matter what the "theology" is, or what academically people may understand it to be, it's how it manifests.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#193

Post by thephyber »

humanrebar wrote: post #154
vivekd wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil. Norse mythology was never like that. Norse mythology was never like that. There was no evil devil. The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What? Why do people say stuff like this? The Norse myths were from a millennium ago, no one has believed in them for almost a thousand years. Maybe Norway is largely atheistic now but for the majori…

It's also bad understanding of Christian theology. > Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil. No, it's mostly focused on the contrast between being a follower of Christ or not. To that end, the character of God and Jesus are elaborated on at length. So subjects like "good" and "evil" come up as a part of that. Yes, Christ is described as being intrinsically good, but the end goal isn't to: * do goo…

> To be fair, the usual cast of Flanders clones (televangelists, Westboro Baptist) get this all really wrong, but just because they're wrong doesn't mean we should get it wrong, too.

If I had written your comment, this would have been the first line, not the last.

Obviously the GP was boiling down a more complex moral model into something simple enough for a social media comment. Whether (s)he knew enough about Christianity to know the difference between these two dichotomies is still unknown.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#194

Post by nl »

mmirate wrote: post #141
Toenex wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What an interesting point.

From a modern viewpoint, I fail to comprehend how Order/Chaos is not merely a special case of Good/Evil. Biological life/intelligence, and the Earth it inhabits, is Order, an unusual low-entropy arrangement of matter; whereas the ultimate Chaos is the cosmological Heat Death.

While there is some overlap of Good/Evil and Order/Chaos it's pretty easy to show how "Order" can be "Evil".

Totalitarian regimes have that name because they demand total control and react strongly to any disorder. They are generally regarded as towards the "Evil" end of the Good/Evil spectrum.

In reality the OP is right - they are different things.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#195

Post by krapp »

mmirate wrote: post #141
Toenex wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What an interesting point.

From a modern viewpoint, I fail to comprehend how Order/Chaos is not merely a special case of Good/Evil. Biological life/intelligence, and the Earth it inhabits, is Order, an unusual low-entropy arrangement of matter; whereas the ultimate Chaos is the cosmological Heat Death.

One does not have to assume that order is good, and chaos is evil.

Within a universe of absolute order, there can be no change, and no life can emerge. Within a universe of absolute chaos, there can be no structure, and no life can emerge. Neither is good, or evil, since those are human cultural constructs, and not fundamental physical laws or universal constants. Even life itself isn't necessarily good or evil, any more than a star or dust cloud is good or evil, it's just one of the many possible states that matter and energy can take as the universe inevitably exhausts itself.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#196

Post by sethrin »

irrational wrote: post #156
orf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about great Britian isn't completely correct, no power could have stood against the empire at its peak. France could have given it a go perhaps, and did around 1800 and where beaten (Waterloo! Waterloo! Waterloo!). The differences you talk about now are, in my opinion, down to advanced weaponry. Where before it was about manpower (and England's vast empire made procurement of such very easy) and sailing (a…

Wait, didn't the US (not that the US existed yet) with the help of the French stand up to Great Britain at its peak?

"with the help of the French" is an understatement. It was better described as a proxy war between Britain and France.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#197

Post by InfiniteBeing »

okreallywtf wrote: post #121
nether wrote: post #62

This is the worst of racism. The next time a white HNer tells PoC to just turn the other cheek toward racist words, point them to this. Racist attitudes are what enable horrific crimes against blacks, such as these.

This is why the of the alt-right and mens-rights and conservative christians fucking terrify me. Somehow, while making slow steady progress a seemingly large swath of people have gotten the idea that things are exactly backwards. As far as they are concerned, whites, males and Christians are under attack and are now lashing out at minorities, women, and non-Christians as if they are "turning the tide" rather than con…

What do you consider to be mens-rights?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#198

Post by emodendroket »

xaqfox wrote: post #144
zer0tonin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-managed communes.

We tried that with 50 independent self-managed communes, but the central commune still usurped or were gifted most of their powers and responsibilities. What would be different this time around?

All in all I don't think that's a very accurate summary of US history.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#199

Post by callmeed »

jernfrost wrote: post #84
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

I am Norwegian, so I thought I'd add a few points, which I think greatly influence the difference. 1) Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge. In Norway it is a 3 year college education, where you learn about mental illness, why people become criminals, how to rehabilitate people etc. The prison guard job in Norway, is by American standards more like a social worker. Guards spend a lot of…

> Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge

First off, this varies by state. Second, a few weeks might be an exaggeration for most states. In California at least the academy is 12 weeks long and that comes after application screening, written & physical exams, background/psych checks, and interviews.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#200

Post by arcticbull »

callmeed wrote: post #199
jernfrost wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Norwegian, so I thought I'd add a few points, which I think greatly influence the difference. 1) Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge. In Norway it is a 3 year college education, where you learn about mental illness, why people become criminals, how to rehabilitate people etc. The prison guard job in Norway, is by American standards more like a social worker. Guards spend a lot of…

> Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge First off, this varies by state. Second, a few weeks might be an exaggeration for most states. In California at least the academy is 12 weeks long and that comes after application screening, written & physical exams, background/psych checks, and interviews.

Far from a 3 year college degree though huh.
Post reply on HN