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I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#151

Post by Sundiata »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #53
hellcow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood my point. Both government-run and privately owned prisons are paid (or funded) based on how many inmates they have in custody. I'm suggesting that private prisons could be solution to the problem if we change their incentive structure.

Instead, what if the state paid prisons a one-time fee for accepting convicts (the amount would vary depending on the type of crime committed), and then penalized the prisons heavily for any recidivism after release? So you are proposing paying private prisons up front and then punishing them potentially ten to twenty years later. That doesn't sound workable politically nor does it sound like a good incentive structu…

I don't have the statistics here but it would be interesting to see what percentage of prisoners were serving 5+ years, maybe the ratio of prisoners serving shorter sentences would make this kind of solution more plausible.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#152

Post by anigbrowl »

rhino369 wrote: post #91
erikpukinskis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Can you say more about this? It sounds like you think that's normal in your community, to think that way. That's not how I hear the people around me talking about prison. I think most of us would support a candidate who talked about rehabilitation. I worry that by trotting out this old meme as if it were an permanent fi…

Part of the problem is that even thought a lot of people generally agree that we are too harsh on criminals, they don't stick to that viewpoint when the rubber meets the road during situations they care about. People who are liberal on sentencing get angry if short sentences are handed down in rape or financial crime cases.

absolute/relative

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#153

Post by mgkimsal »

hellcow wrote: post #83
ryandrake wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is cynical at all. Such an incentive structure + the general public's lack of interest in the human rights of prisoners, would guarantee that outcome.

Then could we make a small change to the incentive structure such that this becomes a non-issue? For instance, could the government pay out the fee over 10 or 20 years (perhaps paying it in full on release), and stop future payments if the prisoner dies while in custody?

why not let prisoners rate the prison, and withhold payments for poor reviews?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#154

Post by humanrebar »

vivekd wrote: post #129
jernfrost wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Norwegian, so I thought I'd add a few points, which I think greatly influence the difference. 1) Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge. In Norway it is a 3 year college education, where you learn about mental illness, why people become criminals, how to rehabilitate people etc. The prison guard job in Norway, is by American standards more like a social worker. Guards spend a lot of…

>Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil. Norse mythology was never like that. Norse mythology was never like that. There was no evil devil. The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What? Why do people say stuff like this? The Norse myths were from a millennium ago, no one has believed in them for almost a thousand years. Maybe Norway is largely atheistic now but for the majori…

It's also bad understanding of Christian theology.

> Christianity is quite focused on the idea of good and evil.

No, it's mostly focused on the contrast between being a follower of Christ or not. To that end, the character of God and Jesus are elaborated on at length. So subjects like "good" and "evil" come up as a part of that. Yes, Christ is described as being intrinsically good, but the end goal isn't to:

* do good things

* be a good person

* avoid evil things

* punish bad people

...that's not to say all those things are irrelevant, but they're certainly based on trusting Christ and His teachings. To be fair, the usual cast of Flanders clones (televangelists, Westboro Baptist) get this all really wrong, but just because they're wrong doesn't mean we should get it wrong, too.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#155

Post by irrational »

jernfrost wrote: post #93
aaron-lebo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that wasn't always the deal. The US up until 1900 was not the top dog. Yeah, the US has a lot of flaws that need to be reformed, but that doesn't make it any different than any more country in history, it makes it exactly like them. It's not an American problem, it's a human problem. When we understand that and stop pointing we'll all be better off.

I strongly disagree. The US is the most powerful country EVER in human history. It has the ability to invade and influence any country on the planet. No country in the past really had that ability. When Great Britain rules much of the world, they were no superpower like the US today. There were countless countries in Europe which could all challenge Britain militarily. Back then there was many great powers. Today the…

"it is VERY important to protest the US and make Americans aware"

Ah, it's so cute you think that would have any affect.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#156

Post by irrational »

orf wrote: post #137
jernfrost wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. The US is the most powerful country EVER in human history. It has the ability to invade and influence any country on the planet. No country in the past really had that ability. When Great Britain rules much of the world, they were no superpower like the US today. There were countless countries in Europe which could all challenge Britain militarily. Back then there was many great powers. Today the…

Your point about great Britian isn't completely correct, no power could have stood against the empire at its peak. France could have given it a go perhaps, and did around 1800 and where beaten (Waterloo! Waterloo! Waterloo!). The differences you talk about now are, in my opinion, down to advanced weaponry. Where before it was about manpower (and England's vast empire made procurement of such very easy) and sailing (a…

Wait, didn't the US (not that the US existed yet) with the help of the French stand up to Great Britain at its peak?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#157

Post by sho »

anigbrowl wrote: post #142
sho wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are at all interested in this topic, I cannot recommend this lecture series highly enough. I found it absolutely mind-blowing and a stunning revelation. Just give the first episode a shot. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQAT-0aSPq-O...

Don't sit with your first revelation, though. Jordan Peterson is a great lecturer but he leverages that to promote a particular worldview of his own. There's a reason for the Buddhist saying 'if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.' Please note that this is a metaphor for continually reworking your own ideas, not an exhortation to kill anyone who displays Buddha nature.

Fully aware of that and I fully agree. I am not putting him up as some sort of cult figure - he definitely has an agenda, and pushes it masterfully.

That said it is probably the best argued agenda I have ever heard. As a full-blown atheist I had never heard such a good defence - explanation, really - of religion, and it's no exaggeration to say the fellow has radically changed my thinking on the matter.

I think it is OK to not agree with someone one hundred percent but still urge any intelligent person to listen to what they have to say, if it has merit.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#158

Post by kerbalspacepro »

adekok wrote: post #128
jernfrost wrote: post #69

I really shouldn't be reading stuff like this. It makes me so angry. It is odd that so many conservative Americans think racism isn't a thing. Blacks are dismissed as violent thugs, who are the fault of their own problems. But who had acted peaceful and well adjusted if they were subject to as much oppression, prejudice and brutality as the blacks of the US? People are products of their environments just like animals…

> Blacks are dismissed as violent thugs, who are the fault of their own problems. Black men are dismissed... as are most men, TBH. The incidence of incarceration goes: black men, white men, black women, white women. Also, rich tends to beat poor, even considering race. e.g. O.J. Simpson. https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_g... Men tend to get 63% larger sentences than women. And that differenc…

Do men commit more crimes than women?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#159

Post by humanrebar »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #89
jernfrost wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got some faith too. While the US has a very strong conservative base who supports backwards policies. Liberals are quite strong as well. I think the main issue is that liberalism in the US until Bernie Sanders, seemed to care little about economic equality, which lays at the heart of almost all other social problems.

They cared once upon a time. The watershed may have been with the civil rights movement. At that time, liberalism may have shifted focus from the economically disadvantaged to the structurally disadvantaged - disadvantaged by race, and then by gender, then by sexual orientation, then by not being sexually binary. In doing so, though, those who were economically disadvantaged felt that the liberals - at least as repre…

> ...those who were economically disadvantaged felt that the liberals - at least as represented by the Democrats - didn't care about them and their problems

And if we're honest, they have good points. We shouldn't stop at "I'm sorry you feel that way" if we want to take care of people better.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#160

Post by anigbrowl »

mod wrote: post #120
BowBun wrote: post #31

The prison system is a crazy, privatized torture system designed to keep the poor incarcerated to increase profits for all the contract work related to running the prison system. Rikers is a great example of a clearly flawed jail system, with inmates getting stuck for years without trial and sometimes killing themselves after losing hope. Having recently gone through the judicial system as a white male, I can't image…

You said you can't imagine being a black man going through the judicial system, and then pointed at your wealth as the source of your "win," rather than your race.

Sentences are grouped together in paragraphs because of their contextual relationship. Evaluating them as independent statements is a scope error.
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