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As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

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Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#191

Post by mahyarm »

cookiecaper wrote: post #131
Glyptodon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm in essentially this situation and I concur that my salary does not completely adjust to an SV/Bay Area salary. But there are also 3 things that do not seem possible at once despite the extra money which keep me from pursuing opportunities in tech hubs: I'm ~5 minutes from biking/hiking/outdoors, ~10 minutes from work, and have a house with a shop/garage. So far as I can tell if I were to move to a tech hub I m…

Yes. The thing to remember about these SV people is that they're mostly single people or working couples who are living in ridiculously tight spaces like these "microapartments". [0] They're forced out after having a kid or two. Almost anywhere else in the country, that $2200/mo will get you quite the spread; you can trade off between square footage, neighborhood, and commute time, but you're going to have very nice…

If they want a family they don't live right beside work in the middle of a busy and dirty city. They move out to the suburban south bay (which has more tech jobs) or east bay, have 30m-1hr commutes and are dual income families.

TBH the harder part of the bay area and kids is actually finding an affordable place to live that have good schools.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#192

Post by geebee »

antod wrote: post #189
geebee wrote: post #158

New Zealand does sound pretty incredible. A massive national park, the size of California, with only 5 million people, and very liveable and appealing cities. Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? The US takes well over a million new immigrants into the country every year. 10 years of our immigration would triple the size of New Zeala…

>I mean, how about this last quote: “It’s boom time for the next 10 years,” Mr. Drury said. The more immigrants, the better. “We’ll take a lot. We’ll take hundreds.” Woah, not hundreds? That was the CEO taking about his company not the country.

Mr Drury's specific quote may be just that company's hiring expectations. Even if that is the case, though consider this context:

"A municipal program to fly in 100 developers next month — wine them, dine them and offer them jobs — was expected to draw 2,500 applications. But the recruitment effort, called LookSee Wellington, was besieged with more than 48,000 entries, including workers at Google, Amazon, Facebook, M.I.T. and NASA. At one point so many people checked out the program that the website failed."

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#193

Post by nebabyte »

15charlimit wrote: post #178

Good luck courting new tech talent when existing tech talent gets hung out to dry at the first hint of pressure. See Kim Dotcom's troubles for reference.

Oh not 'actual' techies that envision the world embracing a new information era, we just want the code monkeys that know enough to pursue the profit motive for us and have internalized the idea that such a role is so in-demand that we can thus get them to do cheaply

come now

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#194

Post by vacri »

pxlpshr wrote: post #174
qume wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZ takes in 50k and have a population of 4mm. So 1 per 80 population. US takes in 1mm per 300mm population, or 1 per 300. NZ takes proportionately much more than the US. A similar calculation can be done for immigrants per area of land.

Not saying I disagree with you but... historical immigration policy certainly impacts "today's" population size that you're using to draw your comparison.

The US has an incredibly wealthy continent at its disposal, full of mineral wealth and fertile farmland, with centuries of infrastructure, close to global trading hubs.

New Zealand has a couple of mid-sized islands, neither of which are particularly good for agriculture or mineral wealth, are a very long way from trading hubs, and has the shortest history of built infrastructure of all western democracies.

But if you want "historical immigration policy", the US's population has tripled since WWI while NZ's has quadrupled; similar growth with NZ having a bit more.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#195

Post by geebee »

vacri wrote: post #190
geebee wrote: post #158

New Zealand does sound pretty incredible. A massive national park, the size of California, with only 5 million people, and very liveable and appealing cities. Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? The US takes well over a million new immigrants into the country every year. 10 years of our immigration would triple the size of New Zeala…

> Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? Both NZ and Australia take in a far higher rate of immigrants than the US. You should change your question to "Imagine if the US took in as many immigrants as NZ". NZ has a serious problem in that because it's easier for an NZ citizen to become Australian, a lot of immigrants use NZ as a 'steppi…

As mentioned above, keep in mind the US has a higher total population precisely because it has had higher historical levels of immigration. Suppose the US had a total population of 500 million and NZ only 2 million. Would that mean NZ is looking even better? How about a billion? By your way of measuring, the more a country grows through immigration, the more immigrants it is required to take in to meet a per-capita measurement.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#196

Post by antod »

magic_beans wrote: post #8
humanrebar wrote: post #3

> For all sorts of reasons, New Zealand suddenly makes sense. The cost of living is less than in San Francisco. Commuting is less wearying. And American politics, “Brexit” and the Islamic State are on the other side of the world. For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. You especially don't have to go to New Zealand to find a cheaper, commuter-friendly place to work. No…

Agreed. This feels a lot like a submarine article . For people in the US, it would be way easier to just relocate from SV to middle America. Or even just to other parts of California. New Zealand does look absolutely stunning, though. http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

> This feels a lot like a submarine article

How is it a submarine article? The people and agencies involved in the campaign are upfront and explicit in what their roles and goals are.

It isn't one of those "the suit is back" articles.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#197

Post by antod »

Apocryphon wrote: post #175
humanrebar wrote: post #3

> For all sorts of reasons, New Zealand suddenly makes sense. The cost of living is less than in San Francisco. Commuting is less wearying. And American politics, “Brexit” and the Islamic State are on the other side of the world. For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. You especially don't have to go to New Zealand to find a cheaper, commuter-friendly place to work. No…

When I think of NZ, I imagine South Pacific beaches, lush forests of emu and kiwi and other exotic animals, and the landscape of the Lord of the Rings film trilogy. What natural beauty does Tulsa have?

You're selling Tulsa short - it has the same number of wild emus as NZ does.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#198

Post by [deleted] »

pxlpshr wrote: post #174
qume wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZ takes in 50k and have a population of 4mm. So 1 per 80 population. US takes in 1mm per 300mm population, or 1 per 300. NZ takes proportionately much more than the US. A similar calculation can be done for immigrants per area of land.

Not saying I disagree with you but... historical immigration policy certainly impacts "today's" population size that you're using to draw your comparison.

[deleted]

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#199

Post by self-diversity »

will_brown wrote: post #188
sidlls wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $50,000 in Fort Lauderdale is as good as $120,000 in the valley. Not really. The quality of life on just about any axis, from parks and recreation to culture to education in Ft. Lauderdale is just inferior. Also, $50k doesn't go as far as you think there. There are a number of day-to-day and intangible costs (e.g. commute) that are actually less expensive in the valley.

"Quality of life" is inferior on any axis? Fort Lauderdale is the Yatch Capital of the World, the intercostal are a billionaire playground. Name any activity on the water from recreation, fishing, diving, to bio research...SV isn't on the map. On the other extreme - absolutely free - I would take Fort Lauderdale Beach and the weather over anything SV has to offer. After all there was a move to totally relocate Hollyw…

If you aren't aware, there is abundant outdoor activity including water recreation in the bay area. You seem to think we have to stay in the valley

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#200

Post by self-diversity »

stevenwoo wrote: post #111
humanrebar wrote: post #3

> For all sorts of reasons, New Zealand suddenly makes sense. The cost of living is less than in San Francisco. Commuting is less wearying. And American politics, “Brexit” and the Islamic State are on the other side of the world. For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. You especially don't have to go to New Zealand to find a cheaper, commuter-friendly place to work. No…

Staying off of Facebook doesn't insulate someone if they are not caucasian. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/24/shooting-of-2-indians-... I don't know if you know this, but large swaths of America were so unsafe to travel for African Americans for a long time after slavery ended, that a guidebook was created specifically for the purpose of avoiding the most dangerous areas. http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/g…

I'm having a hard time drawing a connection between your opening sentence and literally anything else in your post. Did you forget to factor in the passage of decades?
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