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New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

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Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#191

Post by mikeash »

cr0sh wrote: post #177
mikeash wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you define "normal" as "being like most people" then you probably can't live a normal life without a child.

I could argue that I live a better life without children. Others could easily argue the opposite, though. My wife and I made the decision not to have children a long time ago, and we don't regret it in the slightest. What we have found, though, is that our friends and co-workers continue to have on-going "problems" with their children. Issues of sickness, parent-teacher and other school things, dealing with unrulines…

Don't misunderstand "normal" as meaning "good," or "abnormal" as being "bad." I have no problem with your life (I mean, why would I) and what you say about children being a double-edged sword is absolutely true.

The fact is, just by the numbers, having children is normal. But that doesn't mean you should do it!

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#192

Post by throwaway9475 »

nvahalik wrote: post #89
duopixel wrote: post #37

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

Indeed, the cultural "importance" will be revealed in time. However, I fear not in the way you intend. There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more. What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions. To divorce sex from children is to mi…

Okay, I'm going to interact with your opinion: it's based on a mountain of lies and fallacies and that's why you're being downvoted.

> There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more.

Is that also the time when people died from rubella and mumps, or when women weren't allowed to vote? Usually an appeal to a bygone era is a secret yearning to go back to a time when the holder of that view had more power over others who now have equality.

> What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions.

Yeah, because humans /never/ let themselves get ruled by emotions for the first ~100,000 years of history. /s

> To divorce set from children is to misunderstand intimacy, the family, and the entire underpinning of our society.

And yet, I (a man) had some lovely martinis with my poly boyfriend last night before falling asleep with him. Today, I'm being productive and contributing money to our gorgeous house, and contributing to both my local economy and my various levels of government by paying a decent portion in taxes. Tonight I think I'll spend time with friends and our lives will all be that much better for spending time together.

But please, tell me more about how my lack of child-bearing sex is ruining society.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#193

Post by kyriakos »

duopixel wrote: post #37

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

Keep in mind that even though unwanted pregnancies could be a problem giving your teenage son this option will also give him the false impression he's immune to STDs which a condom could have prevented.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#194

Post by pluma »

colanderman wrote: post #25
foepys wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't even make sense. Women have the possibility to abort a pregnancy while men have no say whatsoever (in regions where the big pharma companies are coming from). So the argument that women would do more for male birth control is somewhat strange considering they have all the power in their hands right now.

That's adversarial thinking. If the man and woman are in a trusting relationship, the question changes from one of "power" to responsibility. Today, most reversible contraceptive methods (pill, rhythm, IUD, abortion) rely on the woman owning responsibility (one which they may be unwilling or unable to carry out). Male contraception relieves women of that burden.

The thinking may be adversarial but it's equally valid. That you think you are in a trusting relationship doesn't mean that trust is well-placed or even mutual.

It's not an either-or question. Both statements about male contraception are true: it relieves women of the responsibility (by allowing couples to decide to place the burden on the man) but it also gives control to men that previously only women had.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#195

Post by Dylan16807 »

creepydata wrote: post #137
wayn3 wrote: post #31

- I'm not paying money to have needle injecting chemicals with unexplored potential (longterm) side effects into my private parts when the potential success rate is that of a condom. Condoms kind of work. - "The pill" is a bit more than just a contraceptive. A variety of issues, ranging from skin problems to hormonal imabalances are regulated through the pill, which quite efficiently normalizes outliers in female hor…

Stop your patronizing bullshit! I have taken the pill for years I feel like I am ruining my body. I have side effects. I switched brands, I switched to the shot (that was much worse), every one is awful. I put up with it because I won't risk unwanted pregnancy. It's the less of two very evil evils. You're also ignoring the large population of women who the pill is contraindicated for. It also requires regular doctor…

Being wrong about side effects is not the same as being patronizing.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#196

Post by nommm-nommm »

Ntrails wrote: post #171
criddell wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's highlighting something important, but I think it's the phrasing that's garnering the downvotes. The original comment didn't encourage high risk behavior or say anything about ignoring the risk of STDs.

I don't think I don't deserve them tbh, I was being super glib/lazy. I interpreted the parent as implying that was going to be "job done" for getting a child prepared and it struck me as odd. Personally I would preach Condoms over pills (although I freely acknowledge they can fail, and indeed suspect it's even more likely when teens are the ones using them).

Its not one or the other, you preach the virtues of using both. I did that (condom and pill) with all my sexual partners before I got married and it wasn't uncommon among my peer group from what I saw.

Just like you can and should preach the value of abstinence and the consequences of sex to your teen while also teaching about safe(r) sex.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#197

Post by and0 »

nvahalik wrote: post #126
and0 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are valid points to be made about HN being a bit of a bubble but I'm pretty comfortable pointing out that this is a forum for intellectual honesty and you're really showing none of that. These are tired arguments (ramblings really), to the point where I'm almost convinced you're trolling.

Lack of intellectual honesty? I'm sorry, was there anything I said that was false? Instead of responding to my list of illustrations all you can do is say that I'm trolling?

It's ironic because I've been thinking of writing a piece on how there are different types of reasoning, from strictly rational to the more empathetic (human?). So I cringed a bit myself writing that, because I feel a lot of HN commenters share a very specific type of "thinking" that only works for a small percent of the population and assume it applies to everyone. I see a lot of failure to empathize here, is what I'm saying.

And yet I still feel comfortable dismissing everything you said. It's not even empathetic or emotional reasoning, it's just delusional and the underling assumptions are completely unfounded. There's a problem for religious thinkers (I've checked your previous comments), which is that they aren't searching for answers, they have answers and need to twist everything else to somehow reach them. So long as you're doing that, almost everyone here is going to see through you right away.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#198

Post by YCode »

tlb wrote: post #170
idreyn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this lovely wheat-from-chaff heuristic is that "failure" results in the introduction of a new human life into a world that may not be prepared for it and will be strained ecologically for its existence. I would much rather have a world where the lazy, weak, and sinful pop pills towards an ecologically sustainable population than one where the virtuous are lauded for bringing five or six new people in…

Me too. The failure mode of pre-contraceptive society (unwanted children) was terrible. But human nature is what it is, and many people are willing to accept terrible externalities in order to have a means to display their comparative virtue. The recent attack on universal health care in the US is an example. Many voters seem to desire a world where people who have their financial shit together will live, and others…

Reminds me of a Steinbeck quote:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#199

Post by YCode »

tlb wrote: post #170
idreyn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this lovely wheat-from-chaff heuristic is that "failure" results in the introduction of a new human life into a world that may not be prepared for it and will be strained ecologically for its existence. I would much rather have a world where the lazy, weak, and sinful pop pills towards an ecologically sustainable population than one where the virtuous are lauded for bringing five or six new people in…

Me too. The failure mode of pre-contraceptive society (unwanted children) was terrible. But human nature is what it is, and many people are willing to accept terrible externalities in order to have a means to display their comparative virtue. The recent attack on universal health care in the US is an example. Many voters seem to desire a world where people who have their financial shit together will live, and others…

Reminds me of a Steinbeck quote:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#200

Post by thinkmilitant »

sergior wrote: post #125

This is great. Friend of mine has been tricked by a woman into having a baby and now he has to give away most of his money in form of maintenance. He used a condom, but she emptied it inside her when he was asleep after the sex.

And he knows this because she is an absolute loon who went on to tell him all about it, I presume?
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