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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#191

Post by cloakandswagger »

wilsynet wrote: post #130
cloakandswagger wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They defend every part of the Constitution except the Second Amendment. That hypocrisy is why the ACLU will never see a penny from me.

It's not hypocrisy, it's just their point of view on the 2nd amendment differs from your view. ACLU position: Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right.

And the Supreme Court has ruled, again and again, that it is an individual right. How is it that the ACLU is an originalist when it comes to every amendment except the Second?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#192

Post by enitihas »

ucha wrote: post #89
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

I am disappointed by these kind of comments. Being contrarian just for the sake of it doesn't get us anywhere. We cannot anytime someone does something good ask why something we consider better wasn't previously done.

I don't think he is being contrarian just for the sake of it. He is just using the platform to raise awareness about issues which are serious but don't make the same impact into public discussions and don't get similar levels of support. There is nothing bad in bringing more issues to light, and now seems the perfect time for this when the public appetite is ready for such issues.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#193

Post by offa »

akras14 wrote: post #173
phillmv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. >Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally. For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

100% - conservative in US means bugging homeless people to get away, vs liberal in US means letting homeless people rot on the street in peace. As a Russian saying goes, "it's easy to notice a little chip in someone else's eye, but you won't even notice a log in your own".

Am Russian, so I can tell you that the saying not exclusive to Russian culture, seeing how it is from the Bible.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#194

Post by bmelton »

laurent123456 wrote: post #97
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

This logic (people should do nothing today because they did nothing yesterday) doesn't make any sense, and I don't get why it keeps coming up every time something related to Trump's policy comes up.

Not to speak for the OP, but at least for me, I'm seeing a lot of my friends all of a sudden up in arms over policies that Obama (and Bush, and in some cases earlier than that even) got crickets for.

Admittedly, I'm not trying to compare apples to apples, and I'm the furthest thing from a Trump supporter, and it's absolutely amazing that the media have finally grown into their role of a check and balance against the government, but all too often, that means that they do so with carelessly chosen words that misrepresent the issue, and they act like it's new.

The problem with acting like it's new and giving a pass to handsomer / more liked / partisan presidents of yore is that once Trump is out of office, everyone will start to be complacent again.

Standing up for your rights is the job of the citizenry no matter who is president, and holding our elected officials' collective feet to the fire is what we're supposed to be doing all the time. If it took electing Trump to get people engaged, so be it, but let's not pretend that passing what effectively amounts to law with "a pen and a phone" is Trump's idea, or that people weren't cheering on the last president when he chose to do so, or that it's in any way a good thing to remove the checks and balances branches of the government are supposed to be providing against their co-equal branches.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#195

Post by PeterisP »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

"Do Not Listen to What They Say, Look at What They Do" - simply treat it as evidence that yes, really, despite what some people might want, large parts of the society actually do care more about immigrants like the tech industry green card holders who got stuck in the airports than local homeless people or "people in West Virginia and Kentucky who have lost their jobs and got drenched in opiates".

It's obvious that this is the case. It's also obvious that some people are angry at this, they want America to clearly put their interests above the interests of immigrants, and that's part of why they voted for Trump.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#196

Post by beaconstudios »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #181

So when we were dropping bombs on them it wasn't worth making an official statement, but now that they get held up at the border for a few hours it's suddenly worth talking about? I can't think of a case where the term "Virtue Signaling" is more apt.

well, it's been reported on quite heavily that we're constantly being bombarded with fake news. Some just don't recognise that it's an issue across the political spectrum.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#197

Post by thinkcontext »

mcphage wrote: post #34
hopeandchange wrote: post #27

.

LOL at all the liberals giving money to a group that defends the constitution, how silly is that amirite?

No, I don't think you are right. Even a brief perusal of the history of the ACLU is one of liberals defending the Constitution. The Scopes trial, Pentagon Papers, Japanese internment, segregation, interracial marriage, McCarthyism, Patriot Act, etc. So liberals have supported the ACLU to defend the Constitution throughout its history, and not just for liberal issues. ACLU supports Citizens United and defended Rush Limbaugh's right to privacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#198

Post by artmageddon »

akras14 wrote: post #173
phillmv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. >Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally. For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

100% - conservative in US means bugging homeless people to get away, vs liberal in US means letting homeless people rot on the street in peace. As a Russian saying goes, "it's easy to notice a little chip in someone else's eye, but you won't even notice a log in your own".

FWIW that's also a Bible verse, from Matthew 7:5[0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_7:5

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#199

Post by [deleted] »

phillmv wrote: post #127
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning. >Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people? Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally. For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#200

Post by facetube »

muninn_ wrote: post #135
CydeWeys wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm too cynical and look at these moves (AirBnB, Uber, Google, etc...) as marketing moves. I strongly disagree that this is purely for marketing. As someone working for one of the aforementioned companies, we are all aghast at how quickly this administration has jumped to eroding everything we believe in. These companies' moves are motivated by very real horror at the US going down a dark path. The worst you…

"This temporary hold on people entering the country from one of 7 countries for 90 days affects a lot of my coworkers" And then "I don't care about the dozens of black people gunned down every day" Seems a little selfish no? This is exactly the same mentality that Trump supporters had, just exchange Americans with coworkers and refugees with black people. Maybe they aren't purely marketing moves, but I just have a ha…

You're constructing a strawman. Nobody has said they don't care about black people. The absence of protest attendance or action does not mean people don't care – it may mean they've judged that their talents are best suited to another cause, or that their potential to do good in a different arena is greater.

It is a sad cynical state of affairs when people attempting to do good for one cause are berated for not participating in every other cause under the sun. People have finite resources and differing abilities.

What have you done to combat heroin addiction? What have you done to reduce environmental destruction? What have you done for Jewish causes? What have you done to improve oversight at the FDA? One could play this game forever.

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