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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#121

Post by Shivetya »

wavefunction wrote: post #68
ihsw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

Why were Saudi Arabia and Egypt left off the list? That's where most of the 9/11 hijackers and planners hailed from. I think you're hearing echoes in your "sound mind."

the countries chosen were done so by the Obama Administration and already had travel restrictions in place since 2015. Trump's EO merely put a 90 day ban on such travel.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#122

Post by ihsw »

amluto wrote: post #103
wavefunction wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were Saudi Arabia and Egypt left off the list? That's where most of the 9/11 hijackers and planners hailed from. I think you're hearing echoes in your "sound mind."

One theory: the curiously missing countries have Trump properties. It's entirely possible for a leader to be simultaneously corrupt and motivated by hate.

The seven countries have been either failed states or antagonistic to the US for the past 30 years, it is quite plain to say that it makes sense for Trump's companies -- and various other companies across a wide swath of industries -- to refrain from conducting business.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#123

Post by JonFish85 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #95
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

> Maybe I'm too cynical and look at these moves (AirBnB, Uber, Google, etc...) as marketing moves. I strongly disagree that this is purely for marketing. As someone working for one of the aforementioned companies, we are all aghast at how quickly this administration has jumped to eroding everything we believe in. These companies' moves are motivated by very real horror at the US going down a dark path. The worst you…

> "eroding everything we believe in."

> "the Muslim ban"

This sort of exaggeration probably doesn't help anyone.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#124

Post by jacquesm »

wtvanhest wrote: post #3

I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. Now its become a highly political message board

> I remember when HN did not have a political agenda.

Discussing politics is not the same as having an agenda.

> Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups.

I don't recall such a time and I've been here quite long.

> Now its become a highly political message board

This is most likely a reaction to real world developments involving a large number of HN participants.

Just like HN isn't a San Francisco local affair and yet when BART has issues you can expect it to be upvoted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#126

Post by mst »

monochromatic wrote: post #33

The ACLU sometimes supports a worthy cause, but it's basically just a left-leaning political organization. I understand that's particularly trendy right now, and anyone who supports Trump is a pariah in Silicon Valley... but come on. Would YC be donating directly to the Democratic party if that got the same favorable tax treatment?

The ACLU sued to protect the rights of neo-nazis.

That's not how most "just a left-leaning political organization"s behave.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#127

Post by phillmv »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

You don't even have to go that far; half the people on these boards step over a homeless person to get to work every morning.

>Why weren't we funding the ACLU to help these people?

Well, I think that's easy to answer. People care more about causes when it affects them personally.

For better or for worse, few of us are strict utilitarian maximizers. I haven't quite settled how I think about it, myself.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#128

Post by jmclean »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Although I agree that there's been a frustrating lack of response to those issues, I think at least part of that muted response was a sense that these incidents were an aberration from a general trend of progress.

The reality that many people are waking up to is that social progress is not guaranteed and a passive approach is not enough.

I share your cynicism regarding many of the marketing moves by the companies you mentioned. At the same time, the fact that doing the right thing builds goodwill with a hopefully-majority highlights the importance of making our views and voices heard.

I might wish for a more high-minded motive form these companies. I also wish that it hadn't taken shock events to make the loss of rights feel real for most of America (though to be honest, I'm guilty of this too.)

But I'm excited to see people mobilizing, and will take the good outcomes where I can find them these days. Progress here could require an uneasy coalition.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#129

Post by striking »

chickenfries wrote: post #59
ihsw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

You think Indonesia doesn't have problems with terrorism? (Edit: also, Pakistan?). The idea that this is a reasonable counterterrorism measure by any means is a farce that doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny. It's a test of executive power, perhaps for something more sinister [1]. [1] https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...

It's a list inherited from the Obama administration. The best time to argue about whether this list stands up to scrutiny or not was years ago.

Edit: I'm not making comments about Trump's actions (specifically, I'm not defending what he did). As for whether this particular list stands up to scrutiny, that question should have been asked a long time ago.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#130

Post by wilsynet »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #39
mcphage wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL at all the liberals giving money to a group that defends the constitution, how silly is that amirite?

They defend every part of the Constitution except the Second Amendment. That hypocrisy is why the ACLU will never see a penny from me.

It's not hypocrisy, it's just their point of view on the 2nd amendment differs from your view.

ACLU position: Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right.

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