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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#191

Post by te_chris »

drusepth wrote: post #59
te_chris wrote: post #8

Just saw this got momentarily flagged into oblivion. The dark forces seem to be gathering. I applaud this effort by leaders in our community to stand up and not just let this awful bigotry slide by.

I flagged because it accomplishes nothing but open up yet another venue for people on both sides to argue and complain. It doesn't make any argument to change, or suggest solutions, or otherwise advocate civil discourse other than "Yeah, I agree!" or "Yeah, I disagree!"

That seems like a very selfish (and petty) response. You can just ignore it, you know.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#192

Post by exodust »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #5

For people outside the US, I believe it is perfectly fine to donate to ACLU, but do check if there is an equivalent organization in your country. For example in the UK there is Liberty ( https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/ ). Threats to human rights are a global problem after all.

Come on, this isn't the place to drive recruitment for donations. The ACLU just received a huge chunk of change. There are plenty of worthwhile causes starved for funds that would love the bank balance of ACLU.

Fishing for open wallets while emotions are high and human rights trending.

Just an online take of the city street recruitment, like the Greenpeace people extending their hand for an unwanted handshake from 50 metres away. Cross the road to avoid, and there's another one on the other side.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#193

Post by beat »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
metafunctor wrote: post #3

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

Believing black and white are interchangeable is a privilege of being white. NO black person is allowed to believe this. Society tells them so, every single day.

Stop, and chew on that for a while. Think about your black friends - do you think any of them believe blacks and whites are interchangeable? Do you think a cop pulling them over, or a person interviewing them for a job, always believes this? No matter how colorblind you may think you are personally, much of the rest of America is not. Equality is theory, not practice. If you step up and do something about it, you have to acknowledge that inequality is real, that black and white are not interchangeable. If you don't step up, you're denying reality.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#194

Post by germinalphrase »

josefresco wrote: post #93
germinalphrase wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Midwesterner, I've found many unexpected Trump voters who had similar motivations. A lot of: "well, Hillary isn't going to change anything and things need to change". Not a lot of deep consideration as to what this 'change' will mean (beyond potential reinvestment in infrastructure and "jobs"). I actually think this may be quite a problem for President Trump down the line. These are friendly, community minded pe…

I'm actually worried it won't be a problem. For those Americans who don't obsess over policy, all Trump needs to do is make them happy in the week of, or month of the re-election and he'll have a decent chance. Combine this with the voters in each side who "robo vote" for their party (mostly to prevent the other party from winning) and it will again be a close race. Lastly, many of the policy changes can't be easily…

Maybe - but I'm skeptical that he will largely be able to follow through with his promises. Many of the big issues we face aren't problems created by/solved by political leaders. For instance, we're not going to quickly turn around job loses in the US because we're fundamentally seeing a shift in the importance/balance of labor to capital. Low-skill manufacturing jobs are never coming back - and there isn't a ready pool of alternative ideas that previous presidents were just refusing to implement (or some nonsense). If a president could solve that problem it would already be done.

That said, what people think is true is - of course - whatever they can be convinced is true. Immigration really isn't/hasn't been a problem, so if the president can build an unnecessary wall and convince people that immigration isn't a problem anymore because of it then maybe we're boned.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#195

Post by AJ007 »

ChefDenominator wrote: post #94
csears wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama barred access to the Visa Waiver Program for "High Risk" countries. This was not an outright ban on immigration, it just eliminated access to a "fast lane" for people who needed to visit the US for 90 days or less. Source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/...

Obama also bombed them.

The US has had continuous bombing/droning of Muslim countries for 15 years now.

Most recently, UN estimates of civilians killed in Yemen, many by US-made bombs ( https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/08/yemen-us-made-bombs-used... ) exceeds 4,000 ( https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/01/12/yemen-no-accountability-... ), I've seen others around 10,000+. That was an Obama-backed campaign.

I have a lot of respect for the people who have been protesting the entire time. I have a great deal of suspicion of those who are suddenly speaking up.

Does SV care about human rights, or are they more concerned about their continued access to H1-B Visa holders?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#196

Post by e40 »

Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause.

The trolls have entered the conversation.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#197

Post by sosuke »

humanrebar wrote: post #173
sharemywin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is going to come off like a "smart ass" But, I really curious what people think. Can someone be a bigot towards racists? I've heard the argument that the left is intolerant of intolerance and there for hypocritical, which sort of on it's face sounds plausible but seems more like an alt-fact to me. But I can't put my finger of why. It kind of reminds me of the time I was arguing with my brother and his res…

> How do you deal with people that refuse to argue with logic and facts? This is a good point, and circles back to the original thought in this thread. When words are unclear, how can you discuss logic and facts? People don't have the patience (nor should they) to sit down and cooperatively define dozens of key terms each time they have a meaningful discussion about the direction of society, culture, and government.…

Why shouldn't people have the patience to define their language before having a discussion? Your last line seems to indicate that you think having unchanged definitions to words is a good thing.

My wife and I define things to each other frequently. We often are saying the same things but confusing each others meanings because of wording.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#198

Post by grzm »

te_chris wrote: post #8

Just saw this got momentarily flagged into oblivion. The dark forces seem to be gathering. I applaud this effort by leaders in our community to stand up and not just let this awful bigotry slide by.

Dark forces seem to be gathering? There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. HN, a site which is explicitly not for extensive political discussion. A lot of members are flagging because they're exhausted by the number of political articles.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#199

Post by burkaman »

masterponomo wrote: post #124

In the 1990's in Gwinnett County, GA, you could not enroll your child in school unless he/she had a Social Security number. Non-citizens (including illegal aliens) were exempt from this rule. I considered declaring my children non-citizens as a minor protest, but really didn't care to make an issue of it. Would today's hysterics classify that 1990's policy as hatred, bigotry, and racism agains the (then) largely whit…

> Trump is delivering the revised emphasis on immigration that he promised during the campaign, and so far is doing so entirely within the law.

I know, I think everyone knows this. I didn't vote for him because I was afraid he would follow through on his promises, not the opposite. I don't get why people keep bringing this up as an argument in favor of the order. The fact that you promised to do something does not mean it's a good thing to do.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#200

Post by 0xFFC »

unscaled wrote: post #182
0xFFC wrote: post #57

Iranian here, I do completely respect his decision , although I am 100% against his decision. The only point I don't get is how Trump is not same Trump before election, He talked about banning Muslim (I was born in Muslim family , although I am not Muslim and I am atheist , I want to clear things out that I am not against ordinary people.), But he literally banned people from countries which have not participated in…

The government of Saudi Arabia doesn't officially sponsor any terrorist group (what royal family members do unofficially with their "own" money could be quite different :(). But that's not even the question. The question is which nationals are the most dangerous to US security, and here we're getting into pure populism. Most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, the rest of them from Egypt, the United Arab Em…

To be honest your perspective is very sound.

Trump did try to keep his word, but with lowest economic consequences. Keeping his base, active and hopeful, but at the other hand minimize economic pressure from such act.

About government of Suadi Arabia I think you are right, but the government of Iran is not active as a terrorist against US too. Unless your definition from terroist is Hezbollah, which as much as I hate them, they are not terrorist.

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