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The Facebook bubble just popped

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191–200 of 225 posts

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#191
post #183
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is an echo chamber when it comes to tech choices, but it's absolutely not when it comes to politics. I've seen many pro-Trump supporters in the ranks here, which is very surprising given the demographic.

Really? When I read HN, I got the feeling, most political comments that get upvoted are phrased like "I know everyone here is a liberal leftist, BUT I have to tell you about my conservative right opinion right now, even if you don't wanna hear it!" But I never really encountered these "liberal leftist" majority here. Just in places of the Internet that don't have anything good to say about HN.

I think the difference with this site is that enough of us recognize that the world isn't black or white, but grey. It seems like most sites don't have the majority of people that think like that.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#192
post #171
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple notes on FiveThirtyEight: First of all, yes, they got it wrong, in that they gave Clinton a higher chance of winning than Trump. They didn't give him a 0 chance, and a model that has 67%ish certainty should be "wrong" about 1 in 3 times. They were better than the other major forecasts, insofar as they gave Trump the highest chance of winning. I respect Nate Silver for his opposition to non-data-driven media…

They were better than the other major forecasts, insofar as they gave Trump the highest chance of winning. You might be interested in the LA Times / USC Daybreak poll, which projected a Trump win for some time. (And similarly, "caused dismay — even outrage — among some readers, especially Democrats, who have denounced it and often criticized The Times for running it".) http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-usc-la…

Nate Silver actually wrote a post about the LA Times poll. I don't think it makes sense to compare individual polls with poll aggregates. A single data point being accurate/inaccurate can be due more to luck than methodology, while an inaccuracy in a probabilistic model like Silver's indicates more of a systemic bias across all polls.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-leave-th...

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#193

> On Facebook, a Trump victory was likely, or a Clinton win was all but assured. And if you were watching the election coverage the night of you could very discernibly see the change in the commentators narrative from "yay! Clinton!" to the shock of "Wait, Trump?" to "Those dirty rednecks! (er ... uneducated white folk)" as their reality was changing before them. It wasn't JUST Facebook.

Tom Brokaw was especially insulting to the half of the country that voted for Trump. After several comments about uneducated rednecks causing the downfall of our nation, he summed it up this way: "This election was much more about ‘Duck Dynasty’ than ‘Saturday Night Live’." Hell hath no fury like an elite liberal scorned.

>half of the country that voted for Trump

Nearly half of voters, not the country.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#194

Not to mention realclearpolitics and projectthirtyfive all had poll after poll with all the number crunching data saying Clinton would win. In the end.. clinton: 59,938,290 votes trump: 59,704,886 votes 59million liked all new age sjw stuff 59million other people didn't

Please don't start flamewars here. Whether it's arson or just negligence, the effect is the same. (Edit: I see we've had to ask you several times already not to do this kind of thing. We ban accounts that repeatedly ignore these requests, so please up your game.)

All: when commenting about inflammatory topics on HN, please take extra care to be more civil and substantive, not less. We're trying to go against entropy here. That takes energy.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12922188 and marked it off-topic.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#195

A popular uprising against Silicon Valley is coming. Already I hear it from people in my life, all over the country. They blame social media for allowing the Trump memes to warp people's opinion. They're starting to put the pieces together on unemployment and blame tech automation for taking jobs and not offering a replacement, especially in the heartland. They're angry with Silicon Valley execs for not putting up an…

I agree this is likely. You know, it's a funny sort of thing - people work in the left-coast SV bubble-world making friendly-looking social media applications and suddenly they find they're being looked at by the Old Media crowd like they're a bunch of weapons dealers. I saw a surprisingly self-aware look at this the other day: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/political-me...

In short, former cool-kid Adbusters "meme warrior", accustomed to culture-jamming the elitist logics of "late capitalism", finds himself alarmingly surrounded by the shadowy Meme Magicians of Esoteric Kekism. Meanwhile the Hillary-friendly corporate media looks on, powerless to sink Trump with criticism, but equally unable to stop themselves from giving him free publicity. Suddenly, he finds the corporate mass media to be a "protective membrane between the public and overly toxic ideas."

How the turntables, as they say.

I think what's really interesting is the difficulty of discerning how effective this social media meme politics actually is, or to systematize its internal structure. This isn't a TV ad campaign or a stump speech, it's a distributed, continuous cacophony. So how can you tell whether it's what's boosting the campaign, or whether it's just an epiphenomenon of an already-successful campaign? This makes social media campaigning seem very threatening - when you can't tell how it works, who knows how powerful it might really be?

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#196

We're all definitely in an echo chamber. Hacker News is an echo chamber. So is Reddit, FB, Twitter, etc. This is what happens when, as an industry, we move towards "personalization". All of our "personalized" feeds allow businesses to increase their ad revenue, but it siphons us away from the rest of the world. 30 years ago, we were beholden to the large media outlets, which is also bad, but I believe we've overcorre…

Perhaps a way forward is instead much greater personalization?

Yes, reddit, HN, and the NYT, are echo chambers. But is that the problem, or the eternal-Septemeber, clueless reporting, low-signal high-noise level of the echos?

Is the problem that the LA Times publishes a propaganda piece on Copyright Office staffing? Or that it's so very hard to find high-quality commentary? With which, if you cared to, you could to discredit the dreck? Is the enormous role that groupthink plays in Washington the problem, or that even when people wish to break out of it on some topic, the information infrastructure doesn't exist to support them?

Imaging an HN which, instead of pretending its quality hadn't declined over the years, was instead trying to technically address the decline. What might be done?

Well, why couldn't a high-quality discussion community exist embedded in a reddit? A necessary condition is "we don't see the dreck". Personalization. Everyone has control of what the site looks like to them. So you can be fine with reddit-style puns on topic A, but only see insightful expertise on topic B. And I can make the opposite choice. On Tuesdays.

A core idea of machine-learning-based human-computer-hybrid systems, is that the system learns about the people at the same time that the people help the system execute the process. The candy machine bribing CS undergraduates to grade CS 101 exams, learns both about the answers being graded, and about how much to trust different people's grading of different subjects.

And the system can recognize when it needs advice. "This clearly goes in bucket M, and this in bucket N, but hmm... I'm not sure where to put this one. Hey, statistically well-executed sample of people, which bucket?".

Perhaps it's overly optimistic to think that people might choose to not live in mind ghettos if given the choice. But we won't have a choice until we get better at cultivating quality. Instead of chance "Oh, look over there, by the petunias! A thoughtful thread! Oh, no, it's dead now".

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tom Brokaw was especially insulting to the half of the country that voted for Trump. After several comments about uneducated rednecks causing the downfall of our nation, he summed it up this way: "This election was much more about ‘Duck Dynasty’ than ‘Saturday Night Live’." Hell hath no fury like an elite liberal scorned.

>half of the country that voted for Trump Nearly half of voters , not the country.

If you are allowed to vote and don't, your opinion is irrelevant.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#198
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? When I read HN, I got the feeling, most political comments that get upvoted are phrased like "I know everyone here is a liberal leftist, BUT I have to tell you about my conservative right opinion right now, even if you don't wanna hear it!" But I never really encountered these "liberal leftist" majority here. Just in places of the Internet that don't have anything good to say about HN.

I think the difference with this site is that enough of us recognize that the world isn't black or white, but grey. It seems like most sites don't have the majority of people that think like that.

I'm not sure that this is the case. But I am sure that the majority of people here like to think of themselves as such.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#199
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you see a political post do you tend to interact with it? Do you interact more with personal uplifting stories? Your feed tends to contain the sort of things you interact with to the exclusion of the sort of things you don't. You are probably in a Facebook bubble without even realising it...

No. I dont do anything on facebook at all, i just happen to scroll through my feed every other week when i just went online to contact one of the few people that i cant reach otherwise. I really see where you are going, and i see that we all are in our personal Facebook bubble. But my point stands that Facebook simply does not have the same relevance at here that it seems to have in the U.S. People here read news, ma…

[deleted]

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#200
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You replied to a comment about how Tom Brokaw literally said on national TV that Trump voters were uneducated racist rednecks that watch Duck Dynasty. In that reply, you defended his position. That's where I'm getting it from.

Was there more to his quote than what you wrote above? I've seen both shows, and it seems to me like he's saying this election was more about rural/middle America that it was about urban/coastal America, just based on the typical viewers of the shows. To me, being from a rural area doesn't mean you're racist, or uneducated - even if you don't have a degree, there are plenty of other ways to learn, and also plenty of…

Well, as a liberal, educated white chick who lives in an urban area, if I said someone was more into Duck Dynasty than SNL, it would absolutely be an insult. It would imply they are hick rednecks, and in a bad way.
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