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Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#191

Post by samstave »

nashashmi wrote: post #127
samstave wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that number is misleading. I have a spouse and three children. Does that mean we all will get 10K/yr? I have had a different thought on this in the past; Every child born should have $10K put into an account in their name on the day they are born. It will gain interest and grow until they are 18, then they get the money. And as an adult after 21, they are taxed at some rate to pay back the initial 10K that will t…

I don't like the interest part of the formula. There is too much financial "imprisonment" because of interest. But what you are really saying is put aside $10k and grow it through investments. Then withdraw the gains only, and make the $10k a withdraw-but-pay-back option. No gains :(!

Feel free to make it workable -- I am not a financial gains expert! :)

so is the core idea flawed, or just my vision on execution?

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#192

Post by maker1138 »

One of the best ways to increase prosperity for everyone is to make living more efficient/affordable. Look at the average American budget from 2013[0]. The top of the list is housing. Figure out how to make housing cheaper and more resource efficient and you could lower both housing cost and utility cost, potentially saving people hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

Other top items would be transportation and taxes. A $10k safe and energy efficient vehicle would be a great first step.

Though it may be unpopular in some circles, the fact is taxation is one of the least efficient ways of allocating capital. You have administration costs, fraud, waste, and abuse. If we lower the cost of living for everyone, we can lower taxes as well and allow that capital to be invested more efficiently.

[0] http://www.valuepenguin.com/average-household-budget

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#193

Post by xixi77 »

A couple things I am curious about:

- Basic income is usually proposed as a replacement to some or all services and income support people currently receive. I wonder if it is feasible to simulate that -- e.g. adjust it downwards for people receiving more public assistance (other than things like medicaid of course), or paying lower taxes, etc. -- this of course would depend on the funding model(s) to which results need to be applicable. Otherwise, following the study, people will surely say that what was tested is very different from what was proposed.

- Systemic effects would be relatively hard to evaluate with such a study, an example would be the change in both absolute and relative prices: e.g. I would expect that after a wide adoption, housing prices in cheap and mid-level areas might rise more than in currently expensive areas, because the added income would change the purchasing power of lower-income households by a much larger percentage -- or perhaps not. I guess it might be possible to try to account for things like this at the data analysis stage.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#195

Post by forrestthewoods »

glibgil wrote: post #114
forrestthewoods wrote: post #76

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from…

Why shouldn't basic income be $36,000?

Why shouldn't basic income be $100,000?

Most napkin math proposal for basic income are between $10,000 and $15,000. That's quite hard to make work but it's maaaayyybbeee posssibly achievable. It's at the outer limit of doable but meaningful.

In the US 36k per person would account for 66% of GDP. It'd be 85% of GDP in France. These are not viable figures.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#196

Post by finance-geek »

@sama - since so many people here are in The Bay Area, i'll give the obvious answer for the region -- high density housing. I'm from NYC and we support a lot more housing in a much smaller area. This is accomplished by stacking upwards towards the sky. I appreciate there are earthquake concerns, but I also understand that many of the barriers for high density housing are political and social.

I'll bet many problems in the Bay Area would be resolved with high density housing. A selfish list: shorter commutes (--> more time with family), lower rents (--> more people willing to move here --> fewer developer "shortages"), less cars on the road, less pollution.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#197

Post by DominikR »

glibgil wrote: post #114
forrestthewoods wrote: post #76

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from…

Why shouldn't basic income be $36,000?

10.000$ per person in the US would cost 3.19 trillion dollars per year.

36.000$ would cost the taxpayer 11.484 trillion dollars per year.

The US governments actual revenue for 2015 has been 3.249 trillion dollars.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#198

Post by forrestthewoods »

jessaustin wrote: post #164
forrestthewoods wrote: post #76

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from…

With basic income, that woman could quit her current stressful job, get a better job that only pays $9k, and be wealthier and happier with the resulting $19k income.

Yes. I said that in my comment as well.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#199

Post by csense »

> What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?

Increase the range of opportunities that are within an ordinary person's budget. Nowadays it's fairly simple for the average Joe to buy or sell things online, create a blog, or rent small amounts of server time.

Give people something they can do, and a way they can get paid for it.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#200

Post by nickff »

criddell wrote: post #109
jdoliner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered if its actually the joblessness that degrades people's self worth or the job search that must not be going to well and thus keeps them jobless. Would a person without a job but with a basic income and thus not feeling pressure to get a job experience the same hit to their self worth?

There's not going to be an answer, of course. I think a good source of data could be the population of retired people. I'm pretty sure if I could afford to be retired, I could easily keep busy the rest of my life.

People who retire earlier die sooner; for each year earlier that one retires, life expectancy is shortened by two months (and the results are robust against different assumptions).[1] This would lead one to believe that working is good for your health.

[1] http://freakonomics.com/2012/05/17/retirement-kills-a-new-ma...

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