State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions • Hacker News Board

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#191

Post by OldSchoolPro » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

gotchange wrote: post #81

benevol wrote: post #7

Next thing you know, a new and even more totally total mass surveillance law is passed. (Obviously, attacks will continue to happen from time to time.)

Didn't the French parliament pass a bill recently granting the intelligence and security apparatus greater powers to persecute and watch over people without warrants? Apparently this method is not working at all.

It's working fine, thank you very much. Of course it has little to do with terrorism, but in the political theater one has to make excuses for the unwashed masses.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#192

Post by moultano » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #125

Disappointed to see the comments downplaying the situation because as many people get killed in car accidents every week or whatever. Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. That's the whole point of terrorism.

If it were universally ignored, it wouldn't damage the social fabric.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#193

Post by tomatioaz » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #141

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

It's sad to see two comments in this thread in that vein already. Being a Muslim or not has nothing to do with it.

A French news channel, BFMTV, reported that an attacker shouted Allahu akbar.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#194

Post by yarper » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

rtz12 wrote: post #166

Gee, I wonder when they will finally tell us that the ones responsible are in fact, islamic terrorists. Mark my words HN, this is just the beginning. I wonder when things like this will happen in other European countries. Germany is a likely candidate, as we are currently mass-importing the potential terrorist candidates. And now, I'll just wait for the downvotes I guess.

It already has happened in other european countries..

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#195

Post by thedavinci2000 » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

You can say the same about every new immigration group that arrived to the usa. Usually they are treated lot like crap at the beggining. As they integrate that marginalization disappears. I don't remember them becoming terrorist.

So no, I don't buy it you blaming the host country, in this case France.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#196

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #123

French and living in Paris here. I'm at home fortunately but I live nearby the places in the eastern side of Paris that were attacked. Don't know what to say , just that I hope everybody and their families are safe. This is hard, a very hard hit on my country. Vive la France.

Vive la France, my friend!

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#197

Post by toyg » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

The problem is integration, sure, but it's also a mountain of bad foreign policy choices that enable radicalisations.

"We" (US, UK, France, Italy, Germany etc etc) have completely destabilised an entire subcontinent in the last 25 years. "We" keep pretending that these places are far away, far removed from our shining civilisations, but they are not -- they are on our doorstep, they have been our neighbours for millennia. Rome was fighting wars in that region when ships were still powered by human rowers. Until "we" think that a few drones is all we need to solve what is now a humongous clusterfuck (mostly of our own making), "we" will suffer wave after wave of lunatics with a death wish. Unfortunately, none of the current crop of European and American leaders has the faintest clue about what to do about it, except applying short-term measures that look good on tabloids.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#198

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

voynich61 wrote: post #190

rayiner wrote: post #125

Disappointed to see the comments downplaying the situation because as many people get killed in car accidents every week or whatever. Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. That's the whole point of terrorism.

Only because people like you seem to think it's such a big deal. If people were to look at it as it is and comprehend the scope of the matter, it wouldn't damage the social fabric.

I don't agree. There's a stark difference between a car accident and a fellow human being pumping rounds into people in your local restaurant. The other driver is not trying to kill you typically.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#199

Post by fukusa » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

a3voices wrote: post #156

fukusa wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or could it be that they are just completely desperate brainwashed youth rejected by society? Makes more sense.

So they are just Muslim by coincidence?

We're getting close. How many Muslims live in France? How many commit terrorist attacks?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#200

Post by cataflam » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

a3voices wrote: post #106

grp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, wars of religions are from the 16th century [1]. In 2015, it's probably more linked with the foreign affairs and military operations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion

If there were no Muslims, there would be almost no terror attacks. Conversely, if there were more Muslims, there would be more terror attacks.

There is a very (very) long history of terrorist attacks in France from a wide variety of groups.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorisme_en_France (link to the French one, the English version is shorter)

Only looking at post-WWII, you have far-right groups, far-left groups, Corsican regionalists, Basque regionalists, various independentists (Breton, New Caledony, Caribbean, etc.), extension of the Algerian civil war of the 90s, etc. Those account for hundreds of attacks, with a various amount of deads. Only recently have Islamist attacks begun. The most lethal single attack until today in France was in fact from a far-right group in the 60s.