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Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

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Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#181

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Kluny wrote: post #168
AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know for sure. My believe is, that kids at that age sometimes simply do not know what they are able to do or not. They watch others, as they climb down the ladder and they just imitate them, somehow expecting the same outcome. This boy for sure was not able to swim, but he probably didn't know it. He perfectly copied the behaviour of other people entering the pool and then was maybe completely stunned that h…

I don't understand why he didn't float? In my experience you bob to the top because of the buoyancy of air in your lungs - not above the water, but you at least float to the surface. Am I wrong?

Some of us don't float. We sink. Despite whatever the lifeguard training told you. Plunk, drop straight to the bottom.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#182

Post by dragonwriter »

Kluny wrote: post #168
AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know for sure. My believe is, that kids at that age sometimes simply do not know what they are able to do or not. They watch others, as they climb down the ladder and they just imitate them, somehow expecting the same outcome. This boy for sure was not able to swim, but he probably didn't know it. He perfectly copied the behaviour of other people entering the pool and then was maybe completely stunned that h…

I don't understand why he didn't float? In my experience you bob to the top because of the buoyancy of air in your lungs - not above the water, but you at least float to the surface. Am I wrong?

> In my experience you bob to the top because of the buoyancy of air in your lungs

Depends on a number of factors -- body composition (fat is less dense), how much air you have in your lungs (did you inhale or exhale before entering the water), etc.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#183

Post by rbshadel »

TheGRS wrote: post #131
616c wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I guy with a young child, who ditched floaties and makes him always swim with a life jacket, thank you. And thanks for watching other people's kids. Wage or not, that job can become real rewarding, especially once you are the humiliated and terrified parent. I do not even let my kid walk around our community pool without it on!

A thankless job too, I remember hating life guards growing up because they would blow their whistle at all sorts of things. They aren't trying to be jerks of course, but that was my perception when I was very young and just loved swimming. Being older I see how tough that job would be.

I lifeguarded throughout high school and college, and it always surprised me that most of the difficulties I had were with parents/adults. For the most part, kids would give a sullen look and then listen. My only memorable troubles were the occasional adults who would just flat-out ignore or contradict rules, no matter how many times you told them (I always assumed because they thought they knew better than a ~15 year old). At that point, you have a young lifeguard who has to choose between causing a minor scene (ie: whistling a manager over to "tattle" on them) or having other children see rules not being consistently enforced, which they perceive as license to do whatever they want.

I made one rescue after a little girl faceplanted from the high dive and came up crying and clearly struggling - the whole time I was helping her to the wall, I had her mom yelling at me from the pool deck that "she's fine, you're just scaring her!" I came away from that second-guessing myself - that maybe I SHOULDN'T have gone in after her, and that I should've just let it play out a little more - which is a really scary thing to second-guess.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#184

Post by mturmon »

astrobe_ wrote: post #161
duaneb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever enjoy experimenting with babies, this is how they will act when lowered into a pool. They will stand (or sit) on the bottom, holding their breath. Having a tea party is much easier before you realize the danger consciously.

There's something I don't understand in this statement and in GP's story: when you stay static in the water, provided you don't carry extra weight, you just naturally go up and float to the surface. If you want to stay down, you have to actively move in order to counter Archimedes' force. The reaction of babies is therefore perfectly adapted: stay calm, hold breath, wait until your lower density brings you back to th…

I think it depends on your density. If I exhale, I will sink. This is an item of curiosity to my wife, who has to work to stay underwater, even after exhaling completely. For more:

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-density-of-the-human-body

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#185

Post by janekm »

trhway wrote: post #179
janekm wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that type would not work in a pool... they barely work with significant movement, never mind when there's water sloshing in and out between the LEDs / light sensors.

of course the googled above device wouldn't work as it is. It was only a random google just to gauge the scale of money such tech costs.

Costwise, I think that would be in the ball-park, if we can figure out what to monitor, and how, it could most likely be manufactured for I do work in this field (wireless vital signs monitoring) and unfortunately I don't know of any current technology that I would trust to monitor heart rate on a swimmer other than perhaps a chest strap (but not as a safety device either). For a point of reference, the Apple watch fails to accurately record heart rate when very sweaty or experiencing periodic movement (such as the periodic arm waving).

There was a kickstarter project for a swim safety device (mentioned by others in this thread) but I believe that was based around picking up the arm movement characteristic of this response, which may be a sensible approach (I don't know enough about the characteristic motions of the drowning response vs regular splashing).

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#186

Post by NDizzle »

stevepotter wrote: post #94
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think of this style of lifejacket/water wings? http://www.amazon.com/Stearns-Puddle-Jumper-Deluxe-Jacket/dp... That's what we use with our two year old son, though he's also only in pools with one-on-one attention. I'd prefer to just take him to shallower pools, but his feet just don't touch in any of our local pools, and puddle jumper seemed like a good option for him to have a little independent explora…

We use those too and they are totally safe. The difference between those and the classic floaties is these can't come off, which I remember happening all the time with the old style.

My 2 year old can actually get these off. We had to switch to a normal life vest that has a strap that goes underneath, by his crotch.

If the kid is determined enough, they can indeed come off.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#187

Post by 317070 »

ZitchDog wrote: post #176

Any computer vision / machine learning experts want to weigh in on the difficulty involved in writing an algorithm to visually detect drowning?

You'll need loads of (labeled) training data. And I'm afraid there is no good way to create such a labeled dataset. Unless we'd put some people who can't swim in a pool.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#188

Post by gohrt »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #154
ender7 wrote: post #144

Friendly reminder: rescuing a drowning person (even a child) is incredibly dangerous if you have not been trained in how to do it. They will try to climb on top of you if they get a hold of you and unless you are an exceptionally strong swimmer they will then proceed to drown you. The drowning reflex overrides most people's abilities to process other thoughts, with the result that a loved one is just as likely to dro…

The Boy Scout lifesaving training says, when that happens (the victim climbs on top of you) then simply dive. They will let go. Then surface and try again. And always approach from behind them, get an 'arm bar' across their chest and tow them to safety with your other arm.

> Boy Scout lifesaving training > simply

To be clear, that's what Boy Scout lifesaving training taught you, not what HN taught me.

It's dangerous to attempt a rescue technique based on a vague memory of a forum comment.

Get trained, like Joe did.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#189

Post by LordKano »

I was about 14 and one of my younger cousins asked if I could lift him up onto my shoulders the way his father did. I told him no. Despite the fact that he was younger than me, he was a big kid. He was nearly as big as I was.

When I was swimming across the deep end, he decided to jump onto my shoulders as I surfaced. As I said, he was nearly as big as I was and since I was in the deep end, I couldn't use my feet to gain the leverage I needed to throw him off. After about ten seconds of struggling to get him off of me, I felt that the only recourse I had was to bite him and send the message non-verbally. I grabbed his calf and ankle and pulled them toward my mouth. As soon as my teeth touched his skin, he got the message and got off of me. I ended up not having to bite him but at that point I really wanted to.

All of this transpired in about 15 seconds and the lifeguard never noticed (To be honest, this was a long time ago and I don't even remember if there was a lifeguard on duty at the time) but I never took my safety for granted ever again. Just because I can swim well enough to get myself out of trouble doesn't mean that someone else acting like an idiot can't endanger me.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#190

Post by gohrt »

rusbus wrote: post #22

I was most impressed by the attentiveness of the life guards. While we know someone is going to start struggling in the next 20-30 seconds they've likely been staring at the pool for several hours. They were still able to spot the victims in a huge pool almost instantly.

1. They should be rotating their position every 15 minutes, and taking hourly breaks.

2. They are are at the pool, not watching a grainy video via YouTube

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