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Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

spotthedrowningchild.com

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Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#91

Post by trhway »

m3rc wrote: post #86
trhway wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't we have something like those fitness bands to be worn by children while in the pool - once a person starts drowning the heartbeat and other lifesigns are changing very characteristically and that can just turn the red light on lifeguards console on.

How easy is it to tell the difference between an elevated heartbeat due to imminent drowning, and an elevated heartbeat due to having fun?

just hold your breath for couple minutes (or even better - ask somebody physically stronger to "help" you to keep the plastic bag over you head to make sure that you make the time :) and i think you'll learn the difference. There is an extremely huge biological difference between "panic" and "fun/excitement".

Specifically to drowning there is also oxygen blood content difference - harder to detect from outside, yet an unmistakable indicator.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#92

Post by yellowapple »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #62
acomjean wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea, but the stakes are really high in downing. At some point you want it to be helpful, but not to be so good as to make the human lifegaurd not pay full attention. Machine learning might not be the way to go here.. It definitely in the realm of possibilities. They're starting to do the camera assist in the checkout product theft prevention. http://www.stoplift.com/how-it-works/

Anthropic fallacy. It seems like you are assuming a human is or will always be better than another solution. There may be solutions that are vastly superior to a human lifeguard.

We have some pretty good machine learning tech out there, but I'd reckon we're quite a ways off from the proposed startup focusing on replacing lifeguards with computers even at spotting functionality, let alone the other functions necessary (retrieval, resuscitation iff actually necessary, etc.).

Sure, someday we'll have robots do everything for us. We're not quite there yet.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#93

Post by ntoronto »

bsznjyewgd wrote: post #17

I watched a few of the rescues, and they were all of kids falling out of their floaties and seemingly unable to swim at all. What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble? Would it look the same as the drowning response kicks in? Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water? They might both be bobbing just in and out o…

> Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water?

Watch the face, arms and legs, and water surface. A swimmer in distress has his mouth as high as possible, may be flailing a little with his arms, barely kicks (if at all), barely disturbs the surface of the water, and goes under repeatedly.

But as a lifeguard, I helped weak swimmers, and then requested very firmly that they stay in shallow water. I also took their names so I could get their attention quickly if they wandered too close to the deep end.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#94

Post by stevepotter »

smokey_the_bear wrote: post #43
irishcoffee wrote: post #30

I would like to point out that any flotation device in a pool besides a life jacket is just asking for problems. I life-guarded for almost 10 years, the only way I would ever let anything that supported a human floating __besides__ an approved life jacket was if the pool was almost empty (such that the one person got my undivided attention) and if I knew the child to already be a strong swimmer. I highly encourage ev…

What do you think of this style of lifejacket/water wings? http://www.amazon.com/Stearns-Puddle-Jumper-Deluxe-Jacket/dp... That's what we use with our two year old son, though he's also only in pools with one-on-one attention. I'd prefer to just take him to shallower pools, but his feet just don't touch in any of our local pools, and puddle jumper seemed like a good option for him to have a little independent explora…

We use those too and they are totally safe. The difference between those and the classic floaties is these can't come off, which I remember happening all the time with the old style.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#95

Post by rhaps0dy »

bsznjyewgd wrote: post #17

I watched a few of the rescues, and they were all of kids falling out of their floaties and seemingly unable to swim at all. What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble? Would it look the same as the drowning response kicks in? Also, how do you differentiate the drowning response from someone that's just bad at treading water and floats low in the water? They might both be bobbing just in and out o…

I'm still curious about this: "What does it look like when an able swimmer encounters trouble?"

Do adults drown as often as children?

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#96

Post by kneisley »

trhway wrote: post #74
rdoherty wrote: post #23

A few weeks ago I was sitting 6 feet from the edge of a community pool while many parents and their children were swimming. Out of nowhere one of the lifeguards on the opposite end blows her whistle, jumps in and swims frantically across the pool to rescue a drowning boy 3 feet away from his mother . She was literally looking at him and didn't recognize he was drowning. The mother and child were only about 10 feet fr…

can't we have something like those fitness bands to be worn by children while in the pool - once a person starts drowning the heartbeat and other lifesigns are changing very characteristically and that can just turn the red light on lifeguards console on.

That's a fantastic question. This is probably the right place to ask if there is pattern that can be detected from the wrist. It also makes sense to line the pool edge with lights that can change color, so the bracelet distinctively lights up the grid square of the pool where the drowning is happening, alerting the lifeguard or a strong swimmer nearby.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#97

Post by ZirconCode »

trhway wrote: post #74
rdoherty wrote: post #23

A few weeks ago I was sitting 6 feet from the edge of a community pool while many parents and their children were swimming. Out of nowhere one of the lifeguards on the opposite end blows her whistle, jumps in and swims frantically across the pool to rescue a drowning boy 3 feet away from his mother . She was literally looking at him and didn't recognize he was drowning. The mother and child were only about 10 feet fr…

can't we have something like those fitness bands to be worn by children while in the pool - once a person starts drowning the heartbeat and other lifesigns are changing very characteristically and that can just turn the red light on lifeguards console on.

Looks like this guy tried, although there really isn't much interesting detail there: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-seal-wearable-swim-mo...

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#98

Post by dragonwriter »

scarmig wrote: post #50

Genuine question: is it about time that we start thinking about banning (most) swimming pools? Bear with me for a second. I continually hear tragic stories of them. A child drowning in front of their parents. Someone starting to drown, and accidentally drowning another person who tried to save them. Just the other day, I read a story of how at a bachelorette party the bride-to-be was jokingly pushed into a swimming p…

> Drowning is the single most dangerous form of activity for children.

Drowning is not a form of activity. It might be the single most common cause of accidental death (just checked, it seems to be, but only for children aged 1-4 [0]), but that's different than being the most dangerous activity. If you are comparing danger of activities (like, say, swimming) you would compare the frequency of the thing you are looking at the danger of (e.g., death or injury) for people who engage in the activity (e.g., deaths per hour swimming) vs. other activities.

> We're more than happy to ban guns

Well, not in America. (Whether we should be or not; firearms regulations are extraordinarily politically controversial in the US as a simple matter of fact.)

> I know, I know: swimming pools complete an idyllic image of summer, and in reality it will be a long while before it's even plausible we'd think about putting the most basic of restrictions on them.

Actually, that's not true. We have put restrictions on them, such as California's Swimming Pool Safety Act, requires anti-drowning safety measures for all residential pools for which building (incl. remodel) permits are issued after January 1, 2007.

[0] http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_inju...

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#100

Post by AlphaGeekZulu »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #53
AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #25

I witnessed a scene like this a while ago and it was such a pure horror, that I still get tears in my eyes when recalling the event. I was lying with my wife next to the pool, casually watching. A small boy, maybe 6 or 7 years old, stepped to the ladder and climbed down into the water, in a completely confident, unspectacular way. With the water up to his neck, he did not start to swim, though, but just continued dow…

it? Did the boy do this intentionally? Did he go unconscious when entering the pool? Was he trying to stay under as long as he could? Why was he not moving at all on the way in? <- Down-mods for relevant questions.

I do not know for sure. My believe is, that kids at that age sometimes simply do not know what they are able to do or not. They watch others, as they climb down the ladder and they just imitate them, somehow expecting the same outcome. This boy for sure was not able to swim, but he probably didn't know it. He perfectly copied the behaviour of other people entering the pool and then was maybe completely stunned that he did not float, but sink, I guess. He was in a age where most kids in Germany are confident swimmers and like to dive as well. It was not obvious to us that something was wrong, because his behaviour was so confident. He did not hesitate to climb down, and there were no sudden unexpected movements when he was under. I mean, we did not watch him specifically and guessed whether he was in trouble or not - he was just behaving just like any other boy. And you do not press the stop watch when a kid enters a pool. It just took some time until our subconscious minds shouted "something is wrong - it is too long!".

He entered the pool, face to the stairs, hands on the rails, continued to climb until the ladder ended (with his head already under water), released the rails, and sank, vertically, until the bottom. It was not a very deep pool, maybe 1.70m or so. He seemed to stand there, as if trying to see how long he could keep his breath. And when he shifted out of the upright position it became obvious that he was in trouble. A man standing next grabbed him, pulled him up, saw the boy was unconscious, started to shout for help and within seconds the boy was out of the pool and the lifeguards took over.

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