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"Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

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Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#181

Post by claudius »

randunel wrote: post #174
claudius wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free not to use any of the services offered by society to you, which obviously requires leaving the country.

You are not free to leave the country, unless you are willing to spend your time in between borders. Many people are not as privileged as you are, for example I need a visa to go anywhere in the world. And the elections may seem like freedom, but usually you have to choose between multiple sides of the same evil :P

You are usually free to leave your country (the GDR likely being one of the few exceptions…), but other societies obviously have the right to reject you entry into their countries. And if you don’t like the choices you have at your elections, nominate yourself.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#182

Post by joesb »

Joeri wrote: post #153
joesb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I have lots of friends who played to the last level of Candy Crush without buying any IAP. The game is not impossible to beat without IAP.

How many hours does it take to reach the last level? Doesn't that game have over 600 levels? At 10 minutes average per level we're talking about 100+ hours, which is several weeks of full-time occupation. If you have lots of friends who did that, we're talking about collectively months of FTE. If those had been paid hours, how much money would they have earned in that time? I'm not going anywhere with this, just wond…

The game has been out for more than a year. So you can get far playing just half an hours or so a day. Unless your goal is to beat the game as fast as possible, you'll get there eventually.

Even I am at level 450 before I kinda quit playing it.

> If those had been paid hours, how much money would they have earned in that time?

This is no different from playing other games or activities. Unless you are pushing this particular game as evil, I don't see the point of saying "he could have spent that time doing better thing than watching movie or playing game I don't like".

Also, isn't it great that I can spent my time on a single game instead of having to move on to new game all the time?

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#183

Post by rytis »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #178
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but to draw an analogy that is actually vaguely close to what we're discussing, if some people behave in way X, which is not good for them, or for wider society, we need legislation allowing them to avoid behaving in way X. Yes, that example is exaggerated in the opposite direction from, but far less than, yours.

In the first place, the concept of "legislation allowing [people] to avoid behaving" in a certain way is incoherent. Say what you mean. In the second place, the concept of "we need to prevent people from doing anything negative to themselves" is not distinguishable from the concept of "where there are multiple ways for people to behave, all but one must be prohibited". In fact, it's not even distinguishable from the…

No one is suggesting to ban anything, or enforce people's behaviour in any way. What they want to do is to enforce correct labels on items that people are purchasing. If it says "free" it must be free full stop. If it is only partially free, then it must say so.

It's like getting a "free" train ticket, but then when you want to travel you're asked to pay for boarding the train.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#184

Post by smsm42 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #177
smsm42 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the question if you think it's OK for you to take the rights away from someone that you think are stupider than you. And if you think it's OK if someone who thinks they are smarter than you would take your rights away. If you think that'd be fine - then indeed there's no reason to legalize drugs, at least until people smarter than you decide there is. There's also no point of discussing it, since the…

People are selfish all the time. They threaten others with guns, to get cash. They blackmail, and coerce, and cheat. Smart people too. Now, don't know if selfish irresponsible use of intoxicants rises to that level, but the argument can be made. E.g. alcohol laws are everywhere, and its not even a very good intoxicant.

Argument can be also made it's selfish for you not to give me half of your money. So I am entitled to threaten you with a gun, to get cash you're selfishly denying me. There can be a lot of arguments made once you abandon the notion of rights that people have.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#186

Post by vidarh »

brudgers wrote: post #162
Dewie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids should have a childhood like I experienced/like I wanted, or else it will be a wasted childhood. I don't think that kids should play a lot of video games (I don't know what they should or should not do, since I'm not a child development expert). But this whole adults looking back at their "organic" childhood as the one true way to grow up ever is getting kind of old. Lego? Damnit, take those silly toys away from…

I was working as a City Planner and an elderly black man was sitting in the visitor chair across the desk and looking out the window. He'd come there so I could say "no". He wasn't a first time developer. He'd known he'd get no when he'd been sent to the office with my desk. That's why he hadn't come there first and now that we'd gone through the motions and. the anticipated "no" had been said he asked if I fished. A…

Same still applies, though: You're jumping to conclusions about what is important to others.

I play video games with my 4 year old. He loves it, and he loves doing it with me more than the games themselves. We take him out lots too, but I have equally fond memories of times I've spent playing games with him as the ones I've spent with him on outdoors activities.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#187

Post by napowitzu »

Banning the term "free-to-play" because there are optional features that cost money means you would also need to ban the term "free admission" when a venue charges for food and drinks. You'll also have to get rid of "buy one get one free" and, well, pretty much just strike the word "free" from the dictionary altogether since technically there is not a thing in the world that is entirely without consequence, tradeoff, opportunity cost, etc.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#188

Post by vidarh »

sentenza wrote: post #67
CatMtKing wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 4, I threw a tantrum in the middle of a mall because my mom wouldn't buy me a toy. In exasperation, she sat down at a bench and let me embarrass myself for a half hour. Kid's gotta learn eventually he can't get his way by being a brat, eh?

Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them…

For most people, regardless of age, withdrawing attention when they act negatively tends to relatively quickly make them change their behaviour. Works on toddlers, co-workers, friends. Anyone.

People have a deep psychological need for attention, and negative attention is often better than no attention.

Attention is often the best way to both reward and punish someone, by giving or withdrawing it (not through negative attention).

But yes, you need to be prepared for uncomfortable moments at first if you've let them get away with it previously. And you should be consistent - especially with children, consistency makes a huge difference. And for children it of course needs to be much more obvious - with my son I will tell him when I am withdrawing attention, why, and what he can do to get my attention again.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#189

Post by vidarh »

mcv wrote: post #87
sentenza wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them…

And shaming that parent into giving in to their child's unreasonable demands just ensures that the child will throw more tantrums in the future. And they work because bystanders will shame the parent into giving in. Don't be that person; support the parent.

And that includes not giving eye contact, encouraging smiles or otherwise engaging with the child.

But the problem of course is that for many bystanders it is hard to tell when a child is being a brat, and when a child is being mistreated. Especially if they're not a parent themselves.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#190

Post by vidarh »

joesb wrote: post #172
nnutter wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a parenting problem that a human brain develops over many years and is initially incapable of understanding some of the constraints the world places on it.

> initially incapable So teach them? Isn't that what the parent post was saying?

Teaching them is not an instant process. And given the number of these in app purchases that manages to lure in parents, that's totally unrealistic in any case.
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