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2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

annualletter.gatesfoundation.org

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Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#181

Post by rmah »

pessimizer wrote: post #6

The myth in this article is that a per capita average of income tells you anything about the condition of the poor. Many countries can raise that number significantly by simply asking Mr. Gates to visit for a day.

GDP is a reasonably good measure of a nation's economic activity and per Capita GDP is a reasonably good measure of overall well being under all but the most extreme circumstances. Using purchasing power adjusted GDP is a bit better. IMO, using median income is even better. But GDP figures tend to be more accurate and less subject to bias and thus more commonly used.

To address your snide side comment... Gates visiting would not change the per Capita GDP. GDP and per capita GDP is not calculated that way.

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

and

Per Capita GDP = GDP / Population

Visiting rich foreigners, or even rich expats who just reside somewhere but have no business activity do not change GDP except through their local spending (private consumption).

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP for more info.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#182

Post by jfoster »

Is it just me, or is there some bias in the before & after photos?

Mexico city "before" is just one dwelling versus a full street in the "after".

Nairobi "before" is taken when most of the city was dark due to clouds, whereas the "after" is a bright, sunny day.

Similarly, Shanghai "before" looks like it was taken with an unfavourable filter on a hazy day.

I'm not doubting that the world is improving, especially in those places. I just find it unusual that they used such obviously biased photos.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#183

Post by pikewood »

I appreciated the fractal poetry in including the story of Sadi Seyni's village well (an example of the need for spreading accurate information to our fellow villagers), which is itself wrapped in a letter which calls on the reader to spread accurate information on the myths being presented.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#185

Post by cm2012 »

chime wrote: post #82
spodek wrote: post #14

His third point, "Saving lives leads to overpopulation," is a weird straw man. I've never heard of anyone ever suggesting letting suffering children die as some way to keep the population low. He brings up Malthus as another straw man. I'm not sure the point he's trying to make. To stop people from stopping people from saving people's lives? I think he's trying to suggest that the planet has too many people on it but…

I'll bite. I believed it. Not only did I believe it until I read this letter, I thought Gates Foundation was doing an unintentional long-term disservice to the world by saving so many lives that overpopulation in the remote parts of the world will lead to more suffering due to starvation/hunger, poverty, and depression. If X% of children in villages in Ghana are currently starving, how will raising that to 2X% starvi…

You may also find Hans Roslings Ted Talk, "The Beat Stats Youve Ever Seen" enlightening.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#186

Post by sdegutis »

run4_too wrote: post #175
sdegutis wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and as a result a poorer 'end product', if you will." I guess this is where we differ. I think a person's actions are far more important than anything incidental like income or health. Thus it's much less relevant where, when, or how they're born.

Better Income and/or Health begets better actions, generally. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a real thing. It's rather difficult to be noble when you are starving. That isn't to say it's impossible, but if we are talking about increasing odds of success, it is true. I'm concerned with enabling people to become better than what they are now. All people. Regardless of their mistakes, the mistakes of their great grandpa…

I can understand and appreciate where you're coming from.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#187

Post by humanrebar »

Crito wrote: post #89
sdegutis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted one of my reasons as a reply to my original comment, but I think it's going to get drowned out in all the requests for it. Irony?

That's not irony. That is just the expected result of not being forthright.

I think you mean forthcoming. I think he was initially fairly straightforward (forthright) about saying he didn't want to state his position (not being forthcoming).

It's a pedantic point, but there are implications about the character of the person you're talking about.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#188

Post by devcpp »

chime wrote: post #137
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, which was the specific argument which changed your mind?

I just added the "EDIT" section before I saw your question. That was what made me start questioning my beliefs. Here's a few things the letter said that eroded away the assumptions I had built regarding: POVERTY: > There are still slums and pockets of poverty, but by and large when I visit there now I think, “Wow, most people who live here are middle-class. What a miracle.” > There is a class of nations in the middle…

As a firm believer that overpopulation won't be solved by throwing money at it, and that the people who are having children are the ones who shouldn't, I see most of this as irrelevant. Of course money solves poverty in the short term, no one should be surprised by that. But notice how he keeps comparing one generation with only the previous, and never making long-term assertions.

Besides, I doubt Gates can go from the CEO of Bad Guys Corp. (among the companies with the most evil business practices in history, up there with Nestle) to Superman just because he has always been a modern Robin Hood, establishing an OS monopoly to give our money to the poorest. I'd expect some public guilt or something. I'll keep taking whatever his foul mouth says with an enormous grain of salt until he explains his post-MS enlightenment and endorses Linux.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#189

Post by sdegutis »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #174
sdegutis wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, religion is influencing my views. I am first and foremost a Catholic (although a pretty crappy one who's always in a state of mortal sin). And the Catholic Church teaches that birth control is objectively and inherently offensive to God. But I don't argue from that angle because all of God's truths are rooted in common sense and logic. They aren't just some random rules or decrees that are disconnected from real…

I think this is the reference. 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord p…

I'm still trying to not argue from a position of religion. But I feel that I'm at least obligated to say that this quote is not one of my arguments.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#190

Post by shas3 »

crazygringo wrote: post #149

It's an excellent piece. I'll admit to being a bit confused by the assertion, however: > "letting children die now so they don’t starve later—doesn’t actually work, thank goodness. It may be counterintuitive, but the countries with the most deaths have among the fastest-growing populations in the world. This is because the women in these countries tend to have the most births, too." I spent five months in Kenya, and…

The plural of your anecdote is not data that contradict the Gates' assertions. What is meant by 'population larger than the land can support'? The requirement 'land can support' is valid for communities which rely on subsistence farming. But the very fact that your caravan went there with food means that they have other sources than just 'land'. Now, if in a few years, when their population has critical mass, it becomes commercially feasible for a company to truck food there and sell it, then the problem is solved. So your anecdote, or even a systematic study of just subsistence-farming communities cannot be used to contradict the Gates' association.
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