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Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

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Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#181

Post by milemi »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #46
chiph wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm a capitalist, I wouldn't conduct business with Goldman. They have a history of screwing the market (semi-ok), screwing their customers (not ok), and screwing their employees (not ok). And then blaming everyone else. I expect a certain degree of ethical behavior.

On the contrary, Goldman generally stands by their employees provided they believe the employee stood by them. See for example, Fabrice Tourre, who's personal legal expenses were entirely covered by Goldman.

I think Goldman always stands by Goldman, first and foremost. And so do the lawyers paid by Goldman. Cf. in Fab's case they rested their case literally the minute they had their turn, without calling any witnesses. From day one I was amazed at the guy's naivete of accepting the "gift" from Goldman that he be represented by their lawyers. It's the rule #1: get your own representation folks. Company lawyers don't work for you, they work for the company.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#182

Post by aa0 »

uxp wrote: post #47
michaelochurch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he did something stupid. It's not clear that he did anything wrong, but he should have known (and maybe did) that this was a really bad move on his part. It's not worth it to take work code out of its place, especially not in finance where this will be prosecuted. Unfortunately, engineers fail to account for the fact that image and credibility matter far more than substance. This is a case of a man who really ha…

Did he break the law, specifically the espionage act? I could see theft of property, possibly, but the furthest I could see it going is breaking an employment agreement, which is a contract between two private parties and doesn't bring criminal charges for violations.

It depends how much capital the entity you steal from has. In the case of Goldman..well you don't want to fuck with the Gold Man...he's got quite a hammer.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#183

Post by Fomite »

impendia wrote: post #14

I was on a jury for a murder trial, and so I have some insight into how juries work. At one point, when I was splitting some hairs and discussing the meaning of some small details from the evidence, one of the other jurors got impatient and reached for the coroner's photo of the victim. "Someone died here, you realize."

Weirdly, a jury I was on absolutely went for me arguing something was "Necessary, but not sufficient" during our deliberation. That one surprised me.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#185

Post by metaphorm »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #46
chiph wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm a capitalist, I wouldn't conduct business with Goldman. They have a history of screwing the market (semi-ok), screwing their customers (not ok), and screwing their employees (not ok). And then blaming everyone else. I expect a certain degree of ethical behavior.

On the contrary, Goldman generally stands by their employees provided they believe the employee stood by them. See for example, Fabrice Tourre, who's personal legal expenses were entirely covered by Goldman.

honor among thieves? thats an even better reason to not do business with goldman.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#186

Post by jessaustin »

kbenson wrote: post #109
j_baker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most importantly, don't say anything that might incriminate you. Even if they have you on video doing it with hundreds of witnesses and DNA evidence.

That's the whole point of not talking unless a lawyer is present (and you give them a chance to vet your speech). You have very little chance of knowing what is incriminating, and this is by design. Their job is to put away criminals. In the case where there is not really a crime, their training, which is meant to get confessions from actual criminals, ends up pulling seeming confessions to nonexistent crimes from in…

Even in cases of "actual" crime, the system is quite content to put away innocents.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#187

Post by GeneralMayhem »

mratzloff wrote: post #107
GeneralMayhem wrote: post #62

An interesting takeaway from this piece is that GS is blatantly and systematically violating the terms of the MIT license, GPL, and whatever else they happen to get their hands on. I'd love nothing more than for the FSF to take them to court over it.

GPL, perhaps, but I'm not sure how you think they're violating MIT.

The only clause in MIT (besides the warranty disclaimer) is that the MIT license and original copyright notice must remain on all copies of the software.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#188

Post by impendia »

brazzy wrote: post #23
impendia wrote: post #14

I was on a jury for a murder trial, and so I have some insight into how juries work. At one point, when I was splitting some hairs and discussing the meaning of some small details from the evidence, one of the other jurors got impatient and reached for the coroner's photo of the victim. "Someone died here, you realize."

Appropriate response: "If we convict the wrong guy, the real murderer goes free, you realize".

Actually, it turns out that that wasn't true, at least not under the relevant law.

The defendant was a gang member and a participant in an armed robbery, and when things got ugly (the victims fought back) one of the gang members shot one of the victims.

It was not proved to us that the defendant was the shooter, but -- as I was shocked to learn -- California law put him on the hook for the murder.

Possibly whoever actually shot the victim is still at large. The shooting took place at night, outdoors, the eyewitnesses were all drunk, and their testimony made it clear that, under the circumstances, they could barely tell one black man from another.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#189

Post by rollo_tommasi »

jlgreco wrote: post #159
reginaldjcooper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you add "jury nullification" to the mass emails also? That's what I tell my friends and family about.

If I ever get "fuck you" money, I am going to entertain myself by renting billboard space around courtrooms urging jurors to Google "jury nullification". I figure there would probably be some entertaining fallout of some sort.

Given how jury nullification was traditionally used, that fallout will probably also include accusations of virulent racism.

I'm not sure a lot of more libertarian types who advocate for jury-nullification are fully aware that the reason it was suppressed was that it was for decades a mechanism to basically let white guys kills black guys consequence-free.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#190

Post by phyalow »

sgt101 wrote: post #126
minimax wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cringing sensation you got when you saw the scare quotes around "subversion repository" is the same feeling people in trading get when journalists write about HFT and algorithmic trading. You can see an obvious example in the article where Michael Lewis applies scare quotes to "dark pools."

dark pools scare me a hell of a lot more than witches - possibly because the continued functioning of the financial system is more important to me than warts.

how, all they are is usually unlit "unadvertised" elob's?
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