NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400 • Hacker News Board

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#181

Post by leephillips » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:08 PM UTC

yebyen wrote: post #59

dillonforrest wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually an annoying thing about NYC. In NYC, when people say "New York," they actually mean "New York City's five boroughs." When people say "upstate" or "upstate New York," they mean the rest of the state of New York minus NYC. When people say "the city," they mean "Manhattan." The title only makes sense to residents of NYC.

Actually, I am a resident of Rochester and I understood the title intuitively. Rochester is far (6 hours+) from The City. I was from Buffalo before that, even farther away. I am used to hearing about odd laws that only apply in NYC (the boroughs), from special conditions on a learners' permit license, to bans on 16+oz fountain drinks, when I hear "now illegal in New York" I tend to think naturally, it must apply only…

Plus they drink all your water.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#182

Post by DanBlake » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:09 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #135

dev_jim wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's your own property, go right ahead. Yep, this is the problem with services like AirBnB and Uber. It's embraces a purely selfish attitude in individuals with blatant disregard for the rest of the community.

How does Uber harm the community?

Uber is different in that (in my mind) they do NOT break the law, nor entice others to do so. The law around taxi based operations is on 'hailing fares' - Which involves a taxi driving and seeing you with your hand sticking out and picks you up. Uber cannot do that, its not a taxi. Its a on demand, car pickup service with licensed drivers.

Now, on the other hand- I think that lyft would be a better comparison to airbnb. I believe they let users without a taxi license do the same thing as uber.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#183

Post by sbov » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:09 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #29

macleanjr wrote: post #4

This ruling only applies to the 5 boroughs of New York City, not the entire state.

New York State was named after New York City.

This seems questionable. From what I recall both the province and city were named after the Duke of York when the British took control of New Netherlands (and New Amsterdam) from the Dutch in the 1600s.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#184

Post by nsxwolf » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:13 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #169

nsxwolf wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responding to w1ntermute below: You're right, and that's what I had toyed with looking into. The problem is I use a boilerplate lease like most landlords - because it's been tested for years in "production" if you will. You take a great risk in making even small modifications to existing language without a lawyer review. Writing all new language is even riskier and considerably more expensive. Since I don't want to s…

Offer the renter a split in lawyer fees?

No, create an Airbnb-friendly lease boilerplate.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#185

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #22

Few things that should be pointed out here: 1) First off, most uses in the city have always been against the rules -- it's been a known issue. 2) from TFA: "this law is only actionable as a secondary offense. For example, if the police show up after a noise complaint and then find you renting out your place, only then are you in extra trouble." So it's not going to stop most hosts in their tracks. 3) AFAIK, there is…

[deleted]

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#186

Post by DanBlake » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #22

Few things that should be pointed out here: 1) First off, most uses in the city have always been against the rules -- it's been a known issue. 2) from TFA: "this law is only actionable as a secondary offense. For example, if the police show up after a noise complaint and then find you renting out your place, only then are you in extra trouble." So it's not going to stop most hosts in their tracks. 3) AFAIK, there is…

#3 is incorrect. Short term stays (below 30 days) where you charge rent is taxed, controlled and legalized by the city you live in regardless if you have a extra room or if you live with the guest or not.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#187

Post by DanBlake » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

The tannery thing is a bad example because its not a inherently illegal activity.

Renting out units under 30 days is plain and simple illegal as the laws are written.

With that, a much better example would be running a brothel. It is as cut and dry illegal as this is. Both have city laws saying "This is not allowed". The city certainly has more priority in enforcing one over the other mind you.

You can argue all day airbnbing your unit should not be illegal, but it currently is. Lots of people argue prostitution should be legal though as well, so best of luck.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#188

Post by gline » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:20 PM UTC

textminer wrote: post #178

stephencanon wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently stayed for a few days in an AirBnB room while my wife and I were in New York. A comparably nice hotel room in the same neighborhood would have run us a minimum of $350 a night; the AirBnB room was $110. While I certainly believe that some of the "benefit" of AirBnB comes from not paying for externalities, it stretches logic to believe that those externalities account for $240 a day for two people in one ro…

Isn't that less the externalities than the pool of folks using the existing hotel infrastructure (bending supply/demand) rather than exploring AirBnb/couch surfing/etc. I imagine if business travelers and tourists used AirBnB en masse, the prices would more closely approach that of traditional hotels... But with hosts that're less dependable.

There's a clearing price for hotel rooms in NYC based on the built number of hotel rooms. If everyone viewed airbnb and hotels as fundamentally interchangeable then the range of prices for airbnb units would be similar to the range of prices for hotel rooms at that time - but this would be lower than the current range of prices for hotel rooms, as the supply of available rooms will have increased.

Having said that, I think the airbnb market in NYC is reasonably close to clearing with the hotel market. Probably some listings for very nice apartments and also some for relatively mediocre apartments are underpriced, but the truth is that a night in a decent airbnb apartment is in general commensurate with the cost of a hotel room in the same neighborhood.

The catch, of course, is that there are many airbnb listings in places without hotel rooms at all - Harlem, the far Upper East Side, etc - and in those areas the airbnb prices appear low but of course we don't know the appropriate hotel room clearing price.

But to your basic point, I agree there's probably some discount right now for the general sense that airbnb is "weird" or "idiosyncratic" to the average traveller.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#189

Post by pbreit » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:22 PM UTC

For co-ops and buildings with HOAs, etc, they would most likely ban short term stays. Which is fine since such a situation is undesirable for other residents/owners.

But for free standing homes and other buildings for whatever reason choose to allow such a thing, there should be some sort of "bed and breakfast" type rules which govern semi/non-professional letting. Sort of like on Ebay how you can sell up to a certain dollar amount before you have to pay taxes like ordinary retail businesses.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#190

Post by wavefunction » Tue, May 21, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #173

nathanstitt wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be serious. Just because you happen to own the property does not give you absolute rights. What you are arguing against is called zoning and the legality of that is very well settled. The tannery example is pretty apt here - what right do you have to run a foul smelling eyesore right beside the property where I'm attempting to raise a family?

> what right do you have to run a foul smelling eyesore right beside the property where I'm attempting to raise a family? He has every right to do this. Why do you assume that your family is more important than his tannery? The regulations against things like tannery in an apartment are only there so that you can, when e.g. choosing a place to raise your family, find a place that will suit your requirements. It's lik…

That's why we have zoning, so tanners can go tan hides and residential areas remain for residing.

It's like y'all are trying to reinvent practices long derived from observation and common sense. If you don't like a property's zoning, then don't buy it or go through the process to change the zoning.