India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement • Hacker News Board

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#181

Post by Volpe » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 5:57 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #169

sgpl wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people (more often than not children) in the world that work 20 hours a day in small crowded rooms and make less than living wage. They don't really know another way of life. That is all they have ever been exposed to. They don't know about Apple/Google/iPhone or Steve Jobs or what a computer is because their village is so fucking remote that the Government of India decided it would be a hassle to provide e…

>>They were mostly unlucky in the lottery of life and born in poor circumstances. I never denied that. My whole point was, now that you are- What next? If you think you are happy with poverty then the story ends there. If you aren't then, the government can do little, Sorry but there are simply too many people in our country. The ordinary citizen will not and can't do anything about you. It will be your and your prob…

Your callousness and (what seems to be a) lack of empathy to those less fortunate is quite confronting to read.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#182

Post by intended » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 5:58 AM UTC

tomkarlo wrote: post #179

redcircle wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite possible for the middle class to move into the upper class. It is just ironic that the desire to entire the upper class is often part of neuroses that make it impossible to enter.

That's a pretty vague statement. Do you have any facts or citation to support it?

This is a good line of inquiry and one that should be put to the article itself.

The article takes one event, and then reapplies it liberally to a popular narrative.

I could never have imagined that this was HN material.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#183

Post by intended » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:01 AM UTC

ashray wrote: post #58

legutierr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that being middle class is not about representing any kind of median level of wealth in a population (or other relative measure), but rather has something to do with the kind of resources and income you have access to relative to human needs in an absolute sense. For example, if some, but not all (or even most), of your family members need to work in order to maintain a comfortable lifestyle (which includes h…

You're right. However, the difference in India lies in the fact that the lower-income people are .. middle class. Poor people in India are without any real income. Most of them struggle to get two meals a day. A lot of them live on under $2/day without access to food, shelter, sanitation or any type of medical facility. The stark contrast between such a person and another that drives around in an air conditioned SUV…

Perhaps its the other way round - as in the Indian scale goes from uber rich - upper class - middle class - lower class - impoverished - below poverty line - subsistence.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#184

Post by wilfra » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:07 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #132

wilfra wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be as bad as some countries where you can just pay the cops but the rich and well connected in America definitely play by a different set of rules, especially with regard to punishment. Example: a rich old woman in my hometown was drunk in the morning and ran over a guy riding a bicycle and killed him. She ended up getting probation. Not a day in jail. Put a poor minority behind the wheel of that car and t…

That's race/age not wealth. If it had been a young, rich, black guy in an Escalade what do you think a jury would have done?

Depends who his lawyer was and how many people he and his lawyer know in the local criminal justice system. Connections are just as important as wealth - sometimes moreso. See George Zimmerman (father is a judge) who would have walked were it not for the Worldwide media shining a spotlight on the case.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#185

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:07 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #165

jlarocco wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the…

I am an Indian and I have never been to any other country so far. But I wrote stands true for India. Caste system is a option, you can either associate yourself to it or leave it. This is true at least in modern day India and has been the the case for nearly 20 years now. You can easily ditch your caste, just like atheists ditch their religion. The fact is caste system offers a comfortable cushion of victim hood and…

[deleted]

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#186

Post by intended » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:09 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #165

jlarocco wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the…

I am an Indian and I have never been to any other country so far. But I wrote stands true for India. Caste system is a option, you can either associate yourself to it or leave it. This is true at least in modern day India and has been the the case for nearly 20 years now. You can easily ditch your caste, just like atheists ditch their religion. The fact is caste system offers a comfortable cushion of victim hood and…

Perhaps true in some metros but even as of 5-6 years ago I know of caste based discrimination in villages. People weren't allowed to drink from the village well because of caste and I recall something on the lines of not being allowed to let their shadows touch others.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#187

Post by intended » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:24 AM UTC

markdown wrote: post #111

manishsharan wrote: post #100

I highly doubt the veracity of the article about the SUV driving young man and the vegetable seller; this story confirms your worst stereotypes about India and gets eyeballs but it is bullshit. I would like to point out that poor people in India are a very well represented : Communist part and Marxist parties are doing very well in India. Every political party courts the votes of poor people. If you pull shit like th…

> Btw , Salman Khan (the actor) is facing jail time. For a crime he committed over a decade ago, right? You think that's justice?

Simply put: the system seems to be slightly better than what the situation was in the 1980s

As such yes it is better, but in absolute terms there is still further distance to cover.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#188

Post by wisty » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:29 AM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #116

hkmurakami wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people struggle (or think that they do..) for so long in the rat race that they forget that they have risen above it and gone far beyond that. If these are people who have "made" the money themselves in their own generation, I can see why/how they still view themselves as middle class. It's a mindset. I have had the fortune of getting to know many SV millionaires who grew up in modesty/poverty, and still buy s…

Actually the upper class in the UK are known for shabby chic ie wearing the same 2nd hand Barbour coat that smells of Labrador for 20+ years.

Yep. People who serve the upper class wear suits. When the upper class was the nobility, they wore piss-stained tweed (yes, it's actually manufactured with urine). Now they wear whatever they want.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#189

Post by intended » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:31 AM UTC

derringer wrote: post #105

manishsharan wrote: post #100

I highly doubt the veracity of the article about the SUV driving young man and the vegetable seller; this story confirms your worst stereotypes about India and gets eyeballs but it is bullshit. I would like to point out that poor people in India are a very well represented : Communist part and Marxist parties are doing very well in India. Every political party courts the votes of poor people. If you pull shit like th…

Stereotypes often ring true, no one attributes this kind of stuff to northern Europe and there's a reason for that. As to your claim that he's lying about the vegetable cart story. In order for his car to get swarmed, at least one of those vegetable sellers has to make the first move, sometimes this happens, but 9 times out of 10 people look out for their own skins ahead of righteous vengeance.

A rich man or the bigger car banging into a smaller cart, especially in a poor neighborhood, will get swarmed 9 times out of 10.

You drastically misunderstand the level of righteous vengeance and drama centrism in such a situation. On top of that many people will look at a richer person as someone who is likely to have connections and hence escape justice.

You are more likely to be swarmed than not.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#190

Post by anuraj » Sun, Apr 14, 2013, 6:31 AM UTC

India is a banana republic in every sense of the word; where the mighty have their way and even basic amenities are denied to the poorer 80% of population. But do stay tuned - the Indian class war is yet to play out.