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India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

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Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#161

Post by vacri »

davidroberts wrote: post #74

This does not just apply in India. A long time ago, I had a job soliciting donations door to door in the US. We did all we could to avoid the rich neighborhoods and actively sought out the poor minority neighborhoods. People in those neighborhoods with only two dollars would give one to help others. In the rich neighborhoods, they would call the police the moment they saw you. If I ever had to have a heart attack in…

Low-quality and dysfunctional friends and family are rife everywhere, not just in wealthy areas.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#162

Post by vacri »

rayiner wrote: post #130
nbouscal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would not matter how rich you were. Which USA do you live in?

That county DA doesn't give a shit how rich you are. Being rich doesn't get you out of "poor people" crimes that revolve around physical evidence (as opposed to "rich people" crimes that revolve around knowledge/intent). There's a great scene in "Michael Clayton" where a rich banker calls his lawyer because he hit a bicyclist in his car and fled the scene. The lawyer basically tells him: "I don't know what you think…

The lawyer can give legal advice on what to say and not say, how best to approach the issue, what looks best when taking it to court. Maybe not get off scot-free, but minimise the punishment. Are there any options other than fronting up to court? Mediation? Medical costs? Perhaps filing your admission in a different jurisdiction might help (though I doubt it in the given case)?

Even just having someone who's calm, collected, and dispassionate speak at the trial can be an advantage.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#163

Post by jlarocco »

kamaal wrote: post #159
ashray wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty ( http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat... ). By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots. Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't a…

>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 ho…

>Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own.

> I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the person is ill or is physically disabled. But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition.

> And in a country like India, expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation.

I think you misunderstood what he's talking about. India isn't the United States.

Until recently India had a rigid caste system where it was simply impossible for people to move outside of their caste. If a person's parents were laborers, they became laborers - that was their caste. It had nothing to do with how hard they worked or if other people helped them. Their caste was "laborer," so that's the only job they'd be able to get.

It's not as strict as it used to be, and it's slowly dying out, but it does still exist.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#164

Post by dmix »

raganwald wrote: post #112

Am I the only one who sees this exact same behaviour here in North America, and indeed, here on Hacker News? A sense of entitlement? A feeling that things like anti-discrimination laws are an inconvenience to be brushed off, taxes are a way of stealing the hard-earned wealth on entrepreneurs, and so on? I see nothing particularly Indian about this story. It seems like part fo the human condition. That being said, we…

> anti-discrimination laws are an inconvenience to be brushed off, taxes are a way of stealing the hard-earned wealth on entrepreneurs,

I personally also see a massive amount of entitlement in the inverse...

A never-ending creation of new laws and controls over citizens lives from "philosopher kings" [1] who think they know how to run peoples lives better than they do via "social engineering and idealism".

Or attempting to create some highly idealistic society of total safety....via as security theater, strictly enforcing victimless crimes [2] (such as owning a pitbull or drugs)... and the constant erosion of basic civil liberties in the process to achieve the former.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king#Criticism

[2] http://www.policymic.com/articles/8558/why-we-need-prison-re...

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#165

Post by kamaal »

jlarocco wrote: post #163
kamaal wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 ho…

>Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the…

I am an Indian and I have never been to any other country so far. But I wrote stands true for India.

Caste system is a option, you can either associate yourself to it or leave it. This is true at least in modern day India and has been the the case for nearly 20 years now. You can easily ditch your caste, just like atheists ditch their religion.

The fact is caste system offers a comfortable cushion of victim hood and gives you enough reasons to justify failure or even not trying.

These days belonging to a lower caste is a gift because you get reservations nearly every where. There are protests by many communities to include them in back ward communities because of the reservations. People are fighting to be backward, Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Gurjar_unrest_in_Rajasthan

The situation is such that people want to belong to backward communities and castes.

True freedom is dangerous, many people know it, and they don't even want it.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#166

Post by kamaal »

youngerdryas wrote: post #124
redcircle wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree: upper class isn't about wealth. So much of it is about culture (in the sense that culture breeds character traits). And the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class.

>the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class. Care to elaborate on said traits?

One example I can think of is saving mindset.

To save so much that you ultimately have a lot but spend none of it.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#167

Post by sgpl »

kamaal wrote: post #159
ashray wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty ( http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat... ). By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots. Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't a…

>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 ho…

There are people (more often than not children) in the world that work 20 hours a day in small crowded rooms and make less than living wage.

They don't really know another way of life. That is all they have ever been exposed to. They don't know about Apple/Google/iPhone or Steve Jobs or what a computer is because their village is so fucking remote that the Government of India decided it would be a hassle to provide electricity, and their parents decided to make additional income by renting out a few kids to make ends meet.

These people don't really consider themselves victims, because they don't think they have been wronged. They were mostly unlucky in the lottery of life and born in poor circumstances.

You can refuse to believe whatever you want but the fact is that you were extremely lucky in life to be either born in a relatively well to do family or in circumstances that exposed you technology, educational experiences over the course of your life. Having an internet connection can be a life changing effect, because of the access to information it provides.

>> Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't.

>> But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition.

>> expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation.

>> There by each man for his own and shall deserve net result of his own work.

^^ I am glad that everyone doesn't think like you because the world truly would be an awful place if they did.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#168

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #159
ashray wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty ( http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat... ). By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots. Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't a…

>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 ho…

[deleted]

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#169

Post by kamaal »

sgpl wrote: post #167
kamaal wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 ho…

There are people (more often than not children) in the world that work 20 hours a day in small crowded rooms and make less than living wage. They don't really know another way of life. That is all they have ever been exposed to. They don't know about Apple/Google/iPhone or Steve Jobs or what a computer is because their village is so fucking remote that the Government of India decided it would be a hassle to provide e…

>>They were mostly unlucky in the lottery of life and born in poor circumstances.

I never denied that. My whole point was, now that you are- What next?

If you think you are happy with poverty then the story ends there. If you aren't then, the government can do little, Sorry but there are simply too many people in our country. The ordinary citizen will not and can't do anything about you.

It will be your and your problem alone.

It will be difficult, hard and a tiring lifelong worth of work. Just like it is for everybody else.

What else were you thinking?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#170

Post by rayiner »

vacri wrote: post #162
rayiner wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That county DA doesn't give a shit how rich you are. Being rich doesn't get you out of "poor people" crimes that revolve around physical evidence (as opposed to "rich people" crimes that revolve around knowledge/intent). There's a great scene in "Michael Clayton" where a rich banker calls his lawyer because he hit a bicyclist in his car and fled the scene. The lawyer basically tells him: "I don't know what you think…

The lawyer can give legal advice on what to say and not say, how best to approach the issue, what looks best when taking it to court. Maybe not get off scot-free, but minimise the punishment. Are there any options other than fronting up to court? Mediation? Medical costs? Perhaps filing your admission in a different jurisdiction might help (though I doubt it in the given case)? Even just having someone who's calm, co…

In a criminal charge for something like battery, a lot of the usual legal maneuvering isn't available. There's no mediation, no settlements, no forum shopping jurisdictions, no expert witnesses. All you've got is a prosecutor who is trying to make an example out of you and police with evidence showing you did it. Ultimately, you're going to get the punishment the judge and the jury think you should get.

Now, that doesn't mean you're going to get the same punishment as the poor black guy, but that's not because it helps to be rich, but because it hurts to be poor or black. Juries don't give poor black guys the benefit of the doubt, they have trouble empathizing with people of a different race, their character witnesses don't come across as sympathetic, etc.

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