Never Lie About Who You Really Are • Hacker News Board

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#181

Post by EGreg » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 10:46 PM UTC

gizzlon wrote: post #103

chernevik wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone finds for themselves what witness they must bear. If the OP feels an obligation to help transform social views of homosexuality, well that's their duty as they see it. Likewise those evangelicals who feel the need to bear witness to what Jesus has done for them. If they share a cab it could well be an exhausting ride for everybody but this is beside the point of their obligations as they seem them. We must a…

We must all do the right as we see it. [..] Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Hmm.. this seems like a form of relativism. Are you implying the inverse as well: Doing what _you_ think right is right? How do you defend that if "right" for me happens to be walking around nude in public, or more extreme, shooting people that I disagree with?

I think the word "should" is properly a ternary relation

If A wants B, then they should do C If A does C and B doesn't happen, then it's not A's fault If A does C and B doesn't happen, then any person Z (in the set of people we care about) who wants to appear reasonable should not blame A in a conversation about what happened.

So really, "should" is defined in terms of expecting anyone who wants to be reasonable not to blame you.

Many people think "should" is some absolute thing, such as "A should do C" regardless of what they want. It seems to me that absolute morality requires tons of adhoc exceptions and rules, and that relative morality gives a much more fitting description of what happens.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#182

Post by EGreg » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 10:48 PM UTC

chernevik wrote: post #129

gizzlon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must all do the right as we see it. [..] Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Hmm.. this seems like a form of relativism. Are you implying the inverse as well: Doing what _you_ think right is right? How do you defend that if "right" for me happens to be walking around nude in public, or more extreme, shooting people that I disagree with?

It does seem so, doesn't it? But I couple it with a duty to always seek a better understanding of the right, and to a humility that appreciates you might be wrong. Moral principles are absolute and unchanging. But their _application_ is always subject to a context, and that context is often full of many different considerations of various weights. You may be of some Nudist religion but appreciate that your other duti…

I think if you tried to name moral principles that are absolute and unchanging, you would mostly name principles from logic.

For example, we should not punish an innocent man. But that's because it's a contradiction in terms.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#183

Post by noja » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 10:49 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #116

noja wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter if it's statistically normal, or obvious? Why is there a point when you have to tell people? It seems counter to the equal rights argument.

A good friend of mine, living in SF, recently came out to his parents who live in suburban Colorado. His mom asked him the typical questions--"Are you sure? Have you tried dating girls? Are you sure you just haven't met the right one?" while his dad set quietly at the table. Then all of his sudden his dad broke into a yelling rage, in the middle of a packed brunch place, accused his son of being scrawny because of AI…

You really need to stop a second and try to see things from different perspectives.

Not if those perspectives are bigotry.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#184

Post by TheAmazingIdiot » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 11:10 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #76

elemenohpee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you straight? Not feeling compelled to tell people about your sexuality is a luxury afforded to people who fit into the norm. It's what LGBT activists would call "privilege", and it's something that we as straight/white/male/other dominant group need to be aware of if we don't wish to alienate minority groups.

I understand your point, but it seems a bit laborious in this case. If a cab driver asks me how my day was, and i'm exhausted, I say "good" and stop talking. This is true whether you are gay, straight, or whatever. In the example in the article, if he was too exhausted to tell "the truth" (as he calls it) and have a "transformative conversation", he should have just said "i'd rather not talk about it". This does not…

The guy's "transformative conversation" is akin to staying up late and going to forums and 'correcting' them. Why? Because somebody is wrong on the Internet!

Just substitute internet for real life.

There is a time and place for everything.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#185

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 11:11 PM UTC

elemenohpee wrote: post #174

Dylan16807 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad you chose to misread the comment :/ The choice is in your actions, not your feelings.

So you think gay people shouldn't act on their feelings?

I think gay people have control over their emotions just like everyone else and it doesn't automatically impact 100% of their lives.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#186

Post by TheAmazingIdiot » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 11:13 PM UTC

jpxxx wrote: post #115

ams6110 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sexuality informs and alters 100% of your life. No it doesn't. And choice exists in almost everything.

Hrm, let's perform an in situ experiment! Right now, get on the horn with the people in your world and announce that you're actually gay/straight, whichever is different than currently. Then live accordingly for a few years so we can see what changes! The stakes: one upvote.

I'm bisexual.. So the opposite is bisexual? I'm fine with that.

Can I have my upvote?

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#187

Post by jpxxx » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 11:31 PM UTC

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #186

jpxxx wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hrm, let's perform an in situ experiment! Right now, get on the horn with the people in your world and announce that you're actually gay/straight, whichever is different than currently. Then live accordingly for a few years so we can see what changes! The stakes: one upvote.

I'm bisexual.. So the opposite is bisexual? I'm fine with that. Can I have my upvote?

Well played! Yes. :)

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#188

Post by gadders » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 11:35 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #143

gadders wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...but I'm willing to learn."

Don't do that, please. Sometimes charts are bad. Nothing to do with data, or the potential learning of data.

FFS.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#189

Post by gadders » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 12:03 AM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #41

gadders wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common, but daft. It makes every relationship sound like a firm of solicitors. I don't see what's wrong with wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend.

Del Boy knew the solution to all of this... "My significant other"

"Other 'alf"

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#190

Post by gadders » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 12:10 AM UTC

alsothings wrote: post #86

AndrewDucker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people over the age of, say, 30, feel weird about using the word "boyfriend" or "girlfriend", because they feel that it implies a young person.

This describes me (I live in the UK). I'm 31 I've been in a lovely heteronormative relationship for eight years. We aren't married, and we've called each other 'partner' for years. In my head it lives in the linguistic space between '[boy|girl]friend' and the state-sponsored '[husband|wife]'. I also enjoy its gender neutrality.

Just man-up and get married.