Data centers trigger voter backlash • Hacker News Board

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#181

Post by pesus » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:39 PM UTC

simianwords wrote: post #161

pesus wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI benefits everyone while also benefitting the billionaires - even disproportionately. Source? Also, you seem to be (probably intentionally) mixing up who's an elite and who's not. The people controlling and profiting from AI companies and their ilk are elites. The average person who's livelihood is at risk is not an elite, not matter how much you may try to spin it.

> Source? All the technological innovations since humanity has had this characteristic and I don't see why AI would be different. > Also, you seem to be (probably intentionally) mixing up who's an elite and who's not I think it is convenient to put oneself in the non-elite bucket to justify anger at the "true" elites - the ones just above you. This is actually a well studied phenomena and almost all revolutions follo…

> All the technological innovations since humanity has had this characteristic and I don't see why AI would be different.

Then you should have no problem pointing to concrete examples of how it's actually improved life for the average person.

> I think it is convenient to put oneself in the non-elite bucket to justify anger at the "true" elites - the ones just above you. This is actually a well studied phenomena and almost all revolutions followed the same pattern. As an example, Soviet revolution was largely coordinated by the intellectual elite by overthrowing the Tsar who was the literal elite.

If you want to describe anyone with any education as an "elite", go ahead, but it's not convincing and is pretty anti-intellectual.

I sure am glad I'm apparently an elite and didn't know it, though! Who knew being an elite means you're barely able to make rent, will never be able to afford having children, have to forgo medical care due to the costs involved, and would be homeless within a few months if you got laid off?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#182

Post by cogman10 » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #134

cogman10 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one I know gives a shit about the energy consumption or water usage. They do when the knowledge of the resource consumption is paired with "Which will directly lead to your electric/gas bill going up." People are also paying attention to the fact that the politicians aren't paying attention to the people. Nobody is even trying to sell the benefits of a datacenter in people's backyard. Instead, politicians are be…

I think it's less about what data centers are and more about what they represent. * The lack of care of governments of the people's will: they're opposed nearly everywhere but city governments get them done anyway, oftentimes while ignoring more important local problems * The intrusion of the wealthy/big tech into people's lives. Large tech companies tend to be like insurance companies: they just appear out of the et…

> I think it's less about what data centers are and more about what they represent.

I don't really agree with that. Like I agree with you that these things represent a lot of things people hate. But what they are also matters.

Amazon warehouses represent pretty much all the same things here, but people don't get mad at them because what they are is storage for products and jobs for the local community. They are things that get people their orders faster. While there are protests to Amazon warehouses, it's not to the level of data centers.

I'd argue that it's uniquely what these things are on top of what they represent. They are giant sucks of power/gas which raises local prices and spews out pollution. And their benefit to a local community is basically nothing. ChatGPT isn't appreciably better because of a gargantuan noisy pollution spewing data center next door. And that's assuming the residents use or appreciate ChatGPT.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#183

Post by catapart » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #175

pesus wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is that all you have? Calling people sociopaths? No, I feel a great deal of empathy for and solidarity with my neighbors. Enough that I’ll argue for acting in our self-interest even if it’s unpopular. And what do you do when your neighbors are being mislead? When their fears, anxieties, and hardships are being exploited by demagogues attempting to consolidate their power by whipping them up into an unthinking emotion…

[flagged]

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#184

Post by upboundspiral » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #122

pesus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but that doesn't mean opinions will evolve towards viewing the technology more positively. With AI, it's increasingly the opposite.

It's already speeding up medical progress, so it'll probably take roughly however much time it takes for you to be personally affected by something that is currently incurable.

Tech bros whether they realize it or not are living a philosophy of fear. They say: in order for YOU to be healthy and safe, we should be allowed to trample THEM (the undesirables), because trust us, the end result will be worth it.

Why not both? Why not both technological progress hand in hand with progress in human rights?

They tell us that any slowdown to progress is evil, that they are justified in their crimes because in "the future" all will be fine and dandy.

And what a beautiful future they are bringing us, with the destruction of post WW2 prosperity, increasing wealth inequality, etc etc.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#185

Post by mattmatheus » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

NIMBYism has been popular for a long time. People really do want datacenters (or at least, the things that having datacenters enable).. they just want them somewhere else.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#186

Post by micro2588 » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:46 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

But in PJM they are almost entirely being powered by natural gas and coal? Even if you contract out power from a nuclear plant some other plant on the grid is now enjoying a higher capacity factor, at the margin natural gas.

The data center in question in Utah was marketed as a 9GW full build out natural gas facility more than twice the electrical generation of the entire state. Coal electrical production in the US increased 13% last year.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#187

Post by pesus » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:46 PM UTC

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #160

pesus wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? And I suppose that depends on whether I die first from not having access to healthcare after AI takes my job.

Mostly common sense and an understanding of how technology evolves but, but also: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.06.06.25329104v... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11326321/ https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.24047 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.24047 And more just a Google search away.

Thanks for the response, but unfortunately "common sense" is not a source.

And unfortunately, these aren't actual examples of medical progress being made. AI in some capacity is absolutely going to be helpful for medical research, but I'm still very skeptical LLMs are what is going to do it. I also do not think all the other BS coming with the current LLM wave outweighs the benefits. I think the reaction would be much different if these things weren't conflated, and if the focus of AI was towards things like medical research. As it stands, it comes off more as a coping mechanism / excuse that I do not think is convincing for most people when they see the majority of AI is used for garbage (to put it lightly).

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#188

Post by catapart » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:47 PM UTC

spencerflem wrote: post #170

anthonypasq wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes Is this supposed to scare me or something? I can't even fathom the actual point you are trying to make if it doesn't involve me having an emotional response to this statement.

Seems pretty obvious- that datacenters very measurably contribute to rising costs of electricity and climate change , and unlike aluminum processing or farming which makes things people want, is used for AI which a lot of people resent. It’s a lose-lose

Wild to see people pretend like this isn't true while we're still in the middle of seeing how badly this shit has already fucked up hardware prices.

in b4 the 'apples and oranges' cope

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#189

Post by rescripting » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:47 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

This may come as a surprise to you, but people like living in pleasant surroundings.

Just because I own the land does not mean I can open an abattoir next to an elementary school.

Using land in different ways results in externalities that affect those around it.

The people of a community should have some right to protect themselves from those externalities. How that happens in practice is a deeply flawed, messy, ugly process, but collectively deciding where to draw the line is part of living together as a community.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#190

Post by miiiiiike » Fri, Jun 26, 2026, 9:48 PM UTC

oulipo2 wrote: post #173

miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

You realize that "golfs are even worse so why people complain" is not a serious argument?

That’s not the core of the argument. You know that.

I’m putting things into perspective for people who are terrified that the last drops of their potable water and going to be used to generate a meme video.