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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#161

Post by simianwords »

pesus wrote: post #137
simianwords wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rage that Luigi Mangione felt Luigi is an interesting case because he is not who you think he is. He is definitely not a luddite or populist. I know this because I read a social deep dive on him. His interests, the books he read, the accounts he followed all point to a level of sophistication that indicates he was well above the simplistic "us vs them" Marxist framework. I also disagree with your overall point…

> AI benefits everyone while also benefitting the billionaires - even disproportionately. Source? Also, you seem to be (probably intentionally) mixing up who's an elite and who's not. The people controlling and profiting from AI companies and their ilk are elites. The average person who's livelihood is at risk is not an elite, not matter how much you may try to spin it.

> Source?

All the technological innovations since humanity has had this characteristic and I don't see why AI would be different.

> Also, you seem to be (probably intentionally) mixing up who's an elite and who's not

I think it is convenient to put oneself in the non-elite bucket to justify anger at the "true" elites - the ones just above you. This is actually a well studied phenomena and almost all revolutions followed the same pattern. As an example, Soviet revolution was largely coordinated by the intellectual elite by overthrowing the Tsar who was the literal elite.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#162

Post by simianwords »

pesus wrote: post #158
simianwords wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your view is too simplistic and falls easily into the populist narrative so you end up mislabelling me as being invested. You are again doing the thing I flagged in my original comment - the left right or progressive/conservative axis is not useful anymore. As an example: a lot of tech CEO's were originally against Trump but ended up caving precisely because the left became anti-technology broadly. From exper…

None of this changes the fact that average people aren't elites, no matter how much you may try to spin it that way. And ironically, your comment and views are themselves extremely simplistic. New technology is not inherently progress. Being opposed to specific applications or misuse or consequences of a type of technology is not the same as being broadly anti-technology. A "populist narrative" is an incredibly vague…

You think there's a binary of elites vs non elites which is using a Marxist framework that I (and almost mainstream academic) would reject.

> And ironically, your comment and views are themselves extremely simplistic. New technology is not inherently progress. Being opposed to specific applications or misuse or consequences of a type of technology is not the same as being broadly anti-technology. A "populist narrative" is an incredibly vague oversimplification, and an ironic thing to complain about in a comment that only serves to spread the pro-elite and anti-human narrative the AI corporations are currently pushing.

Thanks for proving my point, you are emphasising the exact divide I was trying to show originally. You may try to twist the rhetoric to show that you are for slow and cautionary progress of tech. That's sensible and I don't mean to claim neo-luddites would outright deny progress itself.

> This is because there's a new political divide that makes the old left vs right obsolete: it is neo-luddites vs tech optimists.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#163

Post by anthonypasq »

spencerflem wrote: post #159
miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes, and they’re using it for technology that disempowers and annoys people. It’s pretty obviously offensive. All for rezoning golf courses too

> One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes

Is this supposed to scare me or something? I can't even fathom the actual point you are trying to make if it doesn't involve me having an emotional response to this statement.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#164

Post by lelandfe »

miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

Surely you have some measure of empathy for their position? I’m sure you certainly did in 08, as people lost their homes.

I think it’s a topic that’s scary to many and this datacenter-to-be, or the local banker, just happens to be what they can easily protest.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#165

Post by Legend2440 »

pesus wrote: post #137
simianwords wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rage that Luigi Mangione felt Luigi is an interesting case because he is not who you think he is. He is definitely not a luddite or populist. I know this because I read a social deep dive on him. His interests, the books he read, the accounts he followed all point to a level of sophistication that indicates he was well above the simplistic "us vs them" Marxist framework. I also disagree with your overall point…

> AI benefits everyone while also benefitting the billionaires - even disproportionately. Source? Also, you seem to be (probably intentionally) mixing up who's an elite and who's not. The people controlling and profiting from AI companies and their ilk are elites. The average person who's livelihood is at risk is not an elite, not matter how much you may try to spin it.

The average American is absolutely an elite. Globally and historically, we are both in the 1%.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#166

Post by starik36 »

adamsb6 wrote: post #135
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I’m a voter who prefers we establish rules that be followed rather than encumber every project with a lengthy community dialogue.

That's it right there. Rules, not deals.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#167

Post by anthonypasq »

thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood that involves non-public land just doesnt make any sense to me.

Why do people think that because they have a house somewhere they should get the ability to freeze an entire town in time and disallow anyone to build anything. Seriously, where did this mindset come from?

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#168

Post by pesus »

simianwords wrote: post #162
pesus wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this changes the fact that average people aren't elites, no matter how much you may try to spin it that way. And ironically, your comment and views are themselves extremely simplistic. New technology is not inherently progress. Being opposed to specific applications or misuse or consequences of a type of technology is not the same as being broadly anti-technology. A "populist narrative" is an incredibly vague…

You think there's a binary of elites vs non elites which is using a Marxist framework that I (and almost mainstream academic) would reject. > And ironically, your comment and views are themselves extremely simplistic. New technology is not inherently progress. Being opposed to specific applications or misuse or consequences of a type of technology is not the same as being broadly anti-technology. A "populist narrativ…

You have multiple comments calling anyone opposed to AI in any way an "educated elite". If you don't accept that framework, stop using it.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#169

Post by pesus »

lelandfe wrote: post #164
miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

Surely you have some measure of empathy for their position? I’m sure you certainly did in 08, as people lost their homes. I think it’s a topic that’s scary to many and this datacenter-to-be, or the local banker, just happens to be what they can easily protest.

[flagged]

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#170

Post by spencerflem »

anthonypasq wrote: post #163
spencerflem wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes, and they’re using it for technology that disempowers and annoys people. It’s pretty obviously offensive. All for rezoning golf courses too

> One refrigerator sized rack at a datacenter takes as much power as 150 homes Is this supposed to scare me or something? I can't even fathom the actual point you are trying to make if it doesn't involve me having an emotional response to this statement.

Seems pretty obvious- that datacenters very measurably contribute to rising costs of electricity and climate change , and unlike aluminum processing or farming which makes things people want, is used for AI which a lot of people resent. It’s a lose-lose
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