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Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

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Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#181

Post by signatoremo »

fancyfredbot wrote: post #163

Forget regulations, would it make sense for Europe to train a frontier model of it's own? Would it be sufficiently better than fine tuning a Chinese model? Would it actually be competitive with US frontier models? Would enough people pay to use it even within Europe to pay for the training costs? Do we have enough inference capacity that enough people /could/ use it? Would being "European" allow any governments in Eu…

So your ideas of having AI sovereign is to turn to Chinese models? Do you know what their intention will be and where will they go?

You don't like US models because their values don't align with yours, but then you turn to Chinese models? See how hypocrite that is?

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#182

Post by red75prime »

frollogaston wrote: post #178
red75prime wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, feel free to ruin experience for millions of people.

Ok I will. I don't care, it's my house not theirs.

Watch for those indiscriminate youtubers driving around with their cameras.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#183

Post by niemandhier »

beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

Kimi was trained at cost, so were other models.

Sure some things are a hurdle, but in the end, being the first just means doing all the work.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#184

Post by frollogaston »

sumeno wrote: post #150
sajithdilshan wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it’s quite funny that everyone equate US and US legal system to Trump. The founding fathers created a constitution that can whit-stand and survive people like Trump and still the Republic would thrive. Trump would be gone in few years but US would still be there like it has been for the past 250 years for the people by the people. On the other hand EU started as an economic union and has rotten into a behemo…

The founding fathers created a document that was already struggling with modern realities prior to Trump. 250 years is not a particularly impressive amount of time for a country to not fall apart.

US Constitution has aged pretty well. Some things in there don't seem as relevant today, but some are more relevant now than ever.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#185

Post by virissimo »

sumeno wrote: post #150
sajithdilshan wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it’s quite funny that everyone equate US and US legal system to Trump. The founding fathers created a constitution that can whit-stand and survive people like Trump and still the Republic would thrive. Trump would be gone in few years but US would still be there like it has been for the past 250 years for the people by the people. On the other hand EU started as an economic union and has rotten into a behemo…

The founding fathers created a document that was already struggling with modern realities prior to Trump. 250 years is not a particularly impressive amount of time for a country to not fall apart.

The U.S. Constitution is older than the current constitution of every EU member state and has remained continuously in force longer than any of them.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#186

Post by [deleted] »

philipallstar wrote: post #159
boothby wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation? Innovative methods to destroy human life are "stifled" by measures intended to preserve human life. What to you mean by "progress" -- the betterment of the human condition, or the enrichment of the few and powerful?

If someone gets rich because they provide an affordable useful service to millions then that is definitely progress. They should get rich.

[deleted]

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#187

Post by frollogaston »

red75prime wrote: post #182
frollogaston wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I will. I don't care, it's my house not theirs.

Watch for those indiscriminate youtubers driving around with their cameras.

There's not a lot I can do about that, but it doesn't really matter since random YouTube videos don't index my house into a globally available map view

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#188

Post by LastTrain »

Eupolemos wrote: post #128
LastTrain wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.

Being on the backfoot will make us vulnerable to those who are not. I do not understand how this can not be self evident.

Sure, but clearly you don’t mean at any cost, right?

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#189

Post by joe_mamba »

sumeno wrote: post #150
sajithdilshan wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it’s quite funny that everyone equate US and US legal system to Trump. The founding fathers created a constitution that can whit-stand and survive people like Trump and still the Republic would thrive. Trump would be gone in few years but US would still be there like it has been for the past 250 years for the people by the people. On the other hand EU started as an economic union and has rotten into a behemo…

The founding fathers created a document that was already struggling with modern realities prior to Trump. 250 years is not a particularly impressive amount of time for a country to not fall apart.

>250 years is not a particularly impressive amount of time for a country to not fall apart.

250 years is older than almost every country in Europe (by that I mean current borders and form of government, not the ancient historical ones).

Most were monarchies or various forms of dictatorship till only a few decades ago and finally settled on their current borders only after WW2 or the fall of the USSR or the Yugoslav wars.

For example Spain had its first democratic elections in 1977 and then the UK was dealing with "The Troubles" sectarian conflict in northern Ireland. Europe always was a powder keg around forms of governance, culture, religion and sects. All that is not something that goes away overnight just because EU membership happened.

In contrast, 250 years of continuous governance and conflict free stability is super impressive by that standard.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#190

Post by frollogaston »

rootlocus wrote: post #38
beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?

That's a loaded question.
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