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Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

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Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#141

Post by brailsafe »

beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

Imo useful long-term innovation comes about during the conflict of fighting for and against the rate of technological change, and whatever proves inherently better is what's left after the dust settles. There's a point at which there's so much opposition that nothing innovative happens for too long, but uncontested innovation isn't something most people want either. If the future is uncompetitive but lagging behind the U.S and China, I'd struggle to see the problem

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#142

Post by jimbokun »

rootlocus wrote: post #38
beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?

That bureaucrats can kill any kind of progress with the best of intentions.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#143

Post by red75prime »

mopsi wrote: post #139
red75prime wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights Protect human rights as defined by EU legislature, obviously. And privacy in public places, for example, doesn't seem to be an undebatable human right. Heck, I hate street views disfigured by huge privacy blobs.

> Heck, I hate street views disfigured by huge privacy blobs. Why should you - from the other side of the planet - have an unrestricted view into my front garden at your fingertips?

Why shouldn't I? Your garden is not of a particular interest to me. It's just one of millions of gardens that I might look at as a part of scenery, or to get my bearings if I happen to be in the area. You'd be better off fighting street views in general, unless you are OK with the Streisand effect.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#144

Post by sajithdilshan »

bluegatty wrote: post #134
mmarq wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU legislature is an actual corpus of laws. It’s imperfect, but it’s arguably better than having a guy that can block a model or threat companies because they crossed him.

No it's not. Europe has no models to even block. The US has a guy who occasionally can screw things up for a few weeks, but who will be gone in a while. You have it upside down: the innovation and the stuff is the valuable thing, the laws are there to help us organize ourselves a bit after the fact. They're always a secondary concern to the extent that the vast majority of civilization is working with one another, do…

Exactly, it’s quite funny that everyone equate US and US legal system to Trump. The founding fathers created a constitution that can whit-stand and survive people like Trump and still the Republic would thrive. Trump would be gone in few years but US would still be there like it has been for the past 250 years for the people by the people.

On the other hand EU started as an economic union and has rotten into a behemoth that tries to control every aspect of Europeans. It was not created by the people for the people, rather a bunch of bureaucrats to exert their power and establish authority. At the start EU has done a lot of good things as an economic union, but at its current form, it does more harm for the growth of Europe rather than helping

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#146

Post by fxtentacle »

beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

The thing that nobody talks about is how many EU citizens already are working on frontier models, just inside US companies. That’s why the prohibition was so crippling for Anthropic.

And, btw, the bang per buck that I got from OVH was better than EC2.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#147

Post by sajithdilshan »

mnewme wrote: post #94
beernet wrote: post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

Bullshit. The AI Act is not the problem, Mistral models are definitely usable and some were/are competitive. European future looks bright compared to the political landscape the US has now

Political landscape of the US right now will change in few years like it has been changing for the last 250 years. USA does not equate to its current political situation. But EU would keep on rotting from inside and I would eat my hat if Mistral doesn’t go out of business in next 5 years

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#148

Post by ToucanLoucan »

aspenmartin wrote: post #53
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your product can't function in a way that respects humans' right to privacy, your product is the problem, not the humans' rights.

You can grumble about the way things are but Europe being so far behind a technological race with important geopolitical ramifications means that you guys are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Have fun with zero of European regulations impacting frontier development and then eventually having to depend on it.

I am dying to know what the important geopolitical consequences are of not having a ChatGPT lolol

Oh gods our politicians will have to read their own emails, and write them too! We may never recover. Clearly there is no path forward apart from mass surveillance.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#150

Post by sumeno »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #144
bluegatty wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. Europe has no models to even block. The US has a guy who occasionally can screw things up for a few weeks, but who will be gone in a while. You have it upside down: the innovation and the stuff is the valuable thing, the laws are there to help us organize ourselves a bit after the fact. They're always a secondary concern to the extent that the vast majority of civilization is working with one another, do…

Exactly, it’s quite funny that everyone equate US and US legal system to Trump. The founding fathers created a constitution that can whit-stand and survive people like Trump and still the Republic would thrive. Trump would be gone in few years but US would still be there like it has been for the past 250 years for the people by the people. On the other hand EU started as an economic union and has rotten into a behemo…

The founding fathers created a document that was already struggling with modern realities prior to Trump. 250 years is not a particularly impressive amount of time for a country to not fall apart.
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