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What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

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Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#181

Post by jesterson »

somewhatgoated wrote: post #57
jesterson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not going to debate on manipulation of one cherry picked number. If your point is that crime hasn't risen up since EU started to receive "refugees" in droves, you are either not living in EU or prefer to ignore wider evidence dismissing it as "far-right talking point" (whatever that is)

I live in Germany and crime has been falling significantly since the 1990s with clearance rates for crimes like murder at 93%+ It’s by far one of the safest countries in the world. I think the way you phrase you reply makes it pretty clear where you stand emotionally and politically, so I won’t pretend that facts will change your mind, but alas. So tired of hearing the same lies repeated over and over again in media.

> It’s by far one of the safest countries in the world.

It seriously puzzles me how one can carry the ridiculous thought. The only thing to advise here is perhaps to travel more - to countries like Singapore, Japan, Korea, Thailand and many other places where homelessness, rape, "refugee" with a knife on a street are not a part of everyday's life.

Germany was the safe country. When Germans lived there.

> I think the way you phrase you reply makes it pretty clear where you stand emotionally and politically, so I won’t pretend that facts will change your mind, but alas.

Instead of making emotional statements, would be great if you can actually bring facts you talking much of, but instead talking about your emotions. I would be extremely interested in "facts" explaining how importing criminals and uneducated 3rd world "refugees" actually made Germany (and rest of EU) safer.

And if you actually believe Berlin now is safer compared to Berlin in 90s, you can't be intellectually honest.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#182

Post by kalleboo »

bulbar wrote: post #84
doctorwho42 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What solutions though? From my tangential experience (brother and wife live in Tokyo), there are a ton of programs that are extremely desirable from the US birthrate/childcare perspective already. Base level of 8 weeks Maternity leave , with 6 weeks ahead of birth as well. And government pays a lump sum to help cover hospital costs per birth. The community support and available activities. Seesh the only things that…

> extremely desirable from the US birthrate/childcare perspective already. Always a bad idea to compare with the US which is known to have a terrible social net. > The community support and available activities. Interesting. Is it easy to find high quality daycare for children? That seems to be a huge pain point in Germany. Also child support is too low. I agree that solutions might not be so simple that you can just…

> Is it easy to find high quality daycare for children?

Shinzo Abe mostly solved the daycare issues by both making it free and massively increasing availability. There are still some waiting lists but they went from a peak of nearly 30,000 in 2017 to under 3000 now.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#183

Post by saltyoldman »

armada651 wrote: post #75
saltyoldman wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the united states the birthrate problem is largely climate change panic (which is not a reason to not have kids because other populations / immigrants start accelerating their birth rates), and then because of heavy migration and other market factors, home prices have skyrocketed. Many couples don't want to have kids until they at least buy their "starter house". I'm not very familiar with Japan's problems, but I…

I guess we're ready to blame anything but work hours, no one has time to take care of kids anymore. The correlation between industrialization and falling birth rates has long been established, but it's just shrugged off as a "that's just the way it is" rather than taking a serious look at the 8-hour work day.

Well it's true, I've had so many girlfriends that have literally told me they are not sure about bringing more people into this world because there are already too many it's ruining the planet. Institutional brainwashing.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#184

Post by somewhatgoated »

jesterson wrote: post #181
somewhatgoated wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Germany and crime has been falling significantly since the 1990s with clearance rates for crimes like murder at 93%+ It’s by far one of the safest countries in the world. I think the way you phrase you reply makes it pretty clear where you stand emotionally and politically, so I won’t pretend that facts will change your mind, but alas. So tired of hearing the same lies repeated over and over again in media.

> It’s by far one of the safest countries in the world. It seriously puzzles me how one can carry the ridiculous thought. The only thing to advise here is perhaps to travel more - to countries like Singapore, Japan, Korea, Thailand and many other places where homelessness, rape, "refugee" with a knife on a street are not a part of everyday's life. Germany was the safe country. When Germans lived there. > I think the…

Please read my comment, i literally laid out the facts in the beginning. Crime rate has been falling for 30 years.

Not sure what “facts” you are presenting here?

I lived in Berlin for 20 years, stating that refugees with knifes are part of daily life is beyond delusional.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#185

Post by jojobas »

malicka wrote: post #82
jojobas wrote: post #8

Whatever the answer to people having fewer kids is, it's not "cede your land to some other people who will". Japan's population around 1900 was mere 43 million people - when most of them were required to work the fields. Japan will be fine. Europe, on the other hand...

> cede your land to some other people who will This is an insane way to frame immigration reform. It isn’t “ceding” anything, it just means being OK that not every single person you know is the same race. Having some cultural exchange, growing as a person, learning about the world beyond your borders… these are virtues.

Immigration without assimilation with number as high as required to keep Japan population from falling is unequivocally ceding. Even much more approachable cultures get non-assimilating enclaves. The immigrants won't be considered as belonging by the Japanese and won't strive to become Japanese either.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#186

Post by jojobas »

Tor3 wrote: post #117
pseudo0 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point of price signals though: luxury foods like strawberries will get more expensive if young, physically fit workers are in higher demand. People will shift their consumption accordingly. Maybe the strawberry pickers will end up working in nursing homes, and that's fine. Rice in Japan apparently also benefits from extensive farm subsidies and protectionism. So it's ironic to point to those jobs as…

If you have a way to secure rice production, please let us know. Or did you mean to abandon rice because it's too labor intensive? There's a reason for subsidies, just as there are reasons for agricultural support in my home country - without it there would be no agriculture. And, without going into details, that would be a disaster.

The subsidies are to protect Japanese rice production from countries where the same labour is done for way less. All praise free trade, where poverty is the most exported commodity.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#187

Post by jesterson »

somewhatgoated wrote: post #184
jesterson wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s by far one of the safest countries in the world. It seriously puzzles me how one can carry the ridiculous thought. The only thing to advise here is perhaps to travel more - to countries like Singapore, Japan, Korea, Thailand and many other places where homelessness, rape, "refugee" with a knife on a street are not a part of everyday's life. Germany was the safe country. When Germans lived there. > I think the…

Please read my comment, i literally laid out the facts in the beginning. Crime rate has been falling for 30 years. Not sure what “facts” you are presenting here? I lived in Berlin for 20 years, stating that refugees with knifes are part of daily life is beyond delusional.

Ok, i see the way you think and “facts” you are bringing up.

Just one thing i wonder - are you seriously trying to say Berlin is safer (in terms of crime) after Germany started to import 3rd world criminals in droves?

Just simple yes or no would do. Would say tons about logical thinking without using massaged police statistics.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#188

Post by Schiendelman »

SapporoChris wrote: post #177
thrance wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plenty of issues worth worrying about Such as? It looks like the country is doing much worse now that the border is closed.

[flagged]

It's unfortunate that you believe these things - much of this is propaganda that's misled you. :(

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#189

Post by Schiendelman »

saltyoldman wrote: post #183
armada651 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we're ready to blame anything but work hours, no one has time to take care of kids anymore. The correlation between industrialization and falling birth rates has long been established, but it's just shrugged off as a "that's just the way it is" rather than taking a serious look at the 8-hour work day.

Well it's true, I've had so many girlfriends that have literally told me they are not sure about bringing more people into this world because there are already too many it's ruining the planet. Institutional brainwashing.

What makes you call this "brainwashing"? Fewer kids really does mean less resource use.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#190

Post by Schiendelman »

lmm wrote: post #100
TheDong wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children cost hundred's of thousands of dollars to raise, and that doesn't even count the opportunity cost of your own career progression as you have to spend a year of sleepless nights and possibly have one or both parents reduce their work hours to care for the child. The Japanese government already struggles to pay out pensions with its aging population, healthcare and pension costs are both rising, where do you p…

> Should the government increase its already high tax rate from up-to-50% to up-to-90% and take money from the childless to give to parents? Yes > Should the government replace your salary if you quit your job to raise a kid (since after-all that is a cost of the endeavor)? Yes > If you're just talking about "giving birth", I assure you the cost to give birth is already close to free, the government already covers th…

I will fight tooth and nail against this. Immigrants are WAY more economically efficient than children.
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