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What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

jacquescorbytuech.com

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Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#181

Post by ninkendo »

iamacyborg wrote: post #76
unglaublich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one willingly says "yes" to advertisements, but people will say "yes" to important-updates(-and-advertisements).

Hundreds of thousands of people declaratively opt into receiving marketing with informed consent on a daily basis. Just because you don’t does not mean other people are like you.

Is “informed consent” that little checkbox that is checked by default? Or is it the one with the wording that says something about “discounts and offers”? Or is it the one that’s enabled because it’s a “new category” that didn’t exist when the user signed up so why not require them to opt out? Oh, I know, maybe you’re talking about the “enable notifications? Yes/Ask Me Later” dialog that is pushed on them every single time they open the app.

I’m sorry but if you honestly think the number of users who receive marketing spam have expressed “informed consent” you’re fucking high. There is a multi-trillion dollar industry devoted to tricking people into opting into spam. Stop pretending these people are expressing any consent at all.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#182

Post by hunter2_ »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #162
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want that? If it is not me, I am not going to allow the login. Making it a notification makes it more likely I could fat finger an approval. I guess you can make the argument that you are then made aware of login attempts, but that feels more like something the host service should control.

> Why would I want that? Because to get that far they entered your password? Which you might like to change? You did mention: "You are a two factor app." If they've got past your first factor, you might want to know.

I recently got an unsolicited OTP email from Microsoft, which led me to fear that someone had entered my password, but no: I eventually was able to confirm that the arrival of an OTP does not, in fact, require that someone enter anything beyond my email address. This is rather insane (I should not be having a blood pressure event due to Microsoft) but on the other hand I do understand the passwordless concept which is just a password-reset flow sans password-change. Perhaps a nice middle ground would be if the OTP email explicitly stated that my password was not entered.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#183

Post by hunter2_ »

dexterdog wrote: post #180
_carbyau_ wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would I want that? Because to get that far they entered your password? Which you might like to change? You did mention: "You are a two factor app." If they've got past your first factor, you might want to know.

I would, but I don't need to know immediately. Plus you have the other vector of my phone sitting on a table and showing the notification to a person who can see it when they are trying to login as me.

I find it to be a poor default that sensitive data is shown on the lock screen. I change that setting as a first order of business whenever I'm setting up a new phone.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#184

Post by drnick1 »

Personally, I don't see a few permanent connections as a problem. My GrapheneOS phone is degoogled, and therefore apps such as Signal fall back to a WebSocket connection. Battery life is probably somewhat impacted, but I use too few apps to notice. And in any case, this is much better than allowing Google to stick its nose into my business.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#185

Post by havaloc »

nurumaik wrote: post #91
pants2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

Apple should add "promotional notifications" section to iOS, then ban everyone who don't put their marketing bs into that category

Yes! iOS 27 needs to categorize notifications using AI. Apps aren't supposed to advertise to you, but some don't allow for that distinction. I want notifications on for when my sandwich is arriving, but I don't want push notifications for a promotion. Some apps are good about this, others don't allow that granularity. I hate the all or nothing.

On the flipside, I have an app that sends notifications. We don't abuse it or use it for promotions, and APNS and Google's version works perfectly fine for us.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#187

Post by sieabahlpark »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #103

I’m constantly amazed how passive people are with things that steal their attention My phone is in do not disturb mode 24/7. If your app notifies me about something pointless, it gets deleted and I start using your website instead I have a mail rule that moves any email with the word “unsubscribe” out of the inbox into its own tagged area. Every few days, I go in and unsubscribe to everything that’s arrived. Whenever…

[dead]

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#188

Post by hunter2_ »

mjmas wrote: post #123
swatcoder wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern pattern in anywhere that allows it is to have dozens of ambiguously labeled toggles for nominally different notification channels, described only by a minimally brief and maximally ambiguous label. All begin as active until the user, in frustration, goes in and exhausts themselves disabling individual options without being sure which one is going to turn off the one single thing they actually want to be no…

Though Android does help a little for existing toggles by giving you an 'About 129 notifications per day' blurb below the entry.

It also puts a throbbing highlight (for a few seconds) on whichever channel is associated with the notification whose gear icon you used as a shortcut into the channel list. At least for Pixel phones.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#189

Post by pimlottc »

orf wrote: post #27

> Google followed in 2010 with Cloud to Device Messaging, then Google Cloud Messaging in 2012, then Firebase Cloud Messaging in 2016 Classic

I’m curious if anything meaningful changed along with these name changes or it’s mostly issues of branding/implementation.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#190

Post by xnx »

lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

Attention(/time) is our most valuable resource. Protect it ruthlessly.
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