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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#181

Post by perrygeo »

dukeyukey wrote: post #156
perrygeo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If there was one single thing that literally every person should do for their health, that is to greatly reduce or completely eliminate sugar. The evidence is overwhelming. The evidence against seed oils is not quite as convincing. I see seed oils as a low quality food to be avoided - goes rancid too easily, requires chemical processing, etc. - but it's not strictly poison. These oils are in virtually every indu…

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

yes, sorry its an important distinction. Especially raw whole fruits since they are packed with fiber and nutrients and hard to overeat.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#182

Post by watwut »

atollk wrote: post #55
alkonaut wrote: post #23

Where is this panic? In the US? I don’t hear anything about it (in Europe).

If you haven't already, you will. Expect supermarkets to start offering and marketing animal-based fats more frequently.

Local stores I go to had animal based fats the whole time. They are fairly cheap and easy to buy in big buckets. Sunflower oil is somewhat cheaper.

But, I cant think of a single time I would had issue to buy animal fat (accross 4 different countries).

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#184

Post by ballenf »

basch wrote: post #171
bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

>Seed oils probably aren't ideal Except they are. A refined monounsaturated fat is in the upper tier of perfect calorie. It makes a lot of sense for omega-9's to be a major part of caloric consumption. The omega-3 and omega-6 when fresh and uncooked are also unnecessary demonized by the idea that they are immediately rancid. Like many things the problems arise from the implementation or how they are used, not the che…

Ideally, yes. But the failure modes in seed oil manufacturing are what scare me. How many accidental hexane exposures would it take to outweigh a lifetime of the benefits of seed oils over more natural, but less healthy, oils?

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#185

Post by jacobrussell »

kstrauser wrote: post #21
jacobrussell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pangram shows 75% AI generated for the article: https://www.pangram.com/history/996e9766-0021-40b7-a226-a1cc ...

That’s a 404. And I recently had an AI detector give a 40% to an article I’d written 100% by hand, every word, with not so much as a Grammarly check involved.

What was the AI detector? I would actually love to know what pangram scores it at; they claim to be state of the art. You should try it and report back!

Not sure why it 404s now — maybe hugged to death. You can try it yourself for free by copy pasting.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#186

Post by port11 »

> My real worry about seed oil theory is that it’s a distraction. If you want to be healthier, we know ways you can change your diet that will help: Increase your overall diet “quality”. Eat lots of fruits and vegetables. Avoid processed food. Especially avoid processed meats. Eat food with low caloric density. Avoid added sugar. Avoid alcohol. Avoid processed food.

> I know this is hard. You could even argue it’s unrealistic. That wouldn’t make it wrong.

> Look, I wish strong seed oil theory were true. That would be great. All we’d have to do is reformulate our Cheetos with different oil, and then we could go on merrily eating Cheetos. Western diet without Western disease! Sadly, I think this is very unlikely.

Dynomight has written an excellent article on seed oils. We have examples in our families of people with very bad diets, favouring tons of butter because ‘at least it’s not processed’.

The research doesn't back this up. As the quote above suggests, we need to stop thinking of ‘magic bullets’ that’ll get us out of eating better. Added sugar and trans-fats might be the only true bullets.

https://dynomight.net/seed-oil/

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#187

Post by leereeves »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #155
lithocarpus wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I wasn't talking about unrefined olive, flax, sesame, or coconut. I don't think most people concerned about "seed oils" are concerned about those. It's the refined soybean oil, canola/rapeseed oil, cottonseed oil, grapeseed oil, sunflower seed oil, corn oil, safflower oil, peanut oil - these are the modern refined oils I'm referring to that were never eaten until very recently. I'd be dubious of refined / ultra…

It isn’t clear at all how refining oil makes it materially “worse” in terms of health than the unrefined equivalent. That claim lacks both evidence and a mechanism of action. Every argument I’ve seen demonstrates a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the chemistry. These same bad chemistry takes are repeated everywhere by influencers. This isn’t unique to the oil discussions, dietary health is rife with vibe-based…

Among other mechanisms, refining removes nutrients and other beneficial molecules, while purifying taste and reducing volume making it easier to overeat.

But the worst part isn't refining the oil itself, but the use of these oils in ultra-processed foods along with refined sweeteners, colorings, and fillers. Even if refined seed oils themselves aren't harmful, avoiding them is likely to be beneficial because it leads to avoiding ultra-processed foods.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#188

Post by flowerthoughts »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #80

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." - Michael Pollan

I don't know why, but this has always tickled me in a good way. It's like the best type of poetry. Extremely well phrased for my minimalist brain.

And the opposite of Claude's commit messages. Maybe I should add this as an example in Claude.MD?

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#189

Post by WarmWash »

port11 wrote: post #186

> My real worry about seed oil theory is that it’s a distraction. If you want to be healthier, we know ways you can change your diet that will help: Increase your overall diet “quality”. Eat lots of fruits and vegetables. Avoid processed food. Especially avoid processed meats. Eat food with low caloric density. Avoid added sugar. Avoid alcohol. Avoid processed food. > I know this is hard. You could even argue it’s un…

It seems like the person is fighting the good fight, maybe, but who is Dynomight?

These random bloggers/influencers speaking from self-proclaimed high ground is in large part how we got in this mess. There are a gazillion people out there who know how to say the right things, to get the right minds, the click the right "follow" buttons, none of which has any bearing on truth, honesty, or accuracy.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#190

Post by gruez »

WarmWash wrote: post #189
port11 wrote: post #186

> My real worry about seed oil theory is that it’s a distraction. If you want to be healthier, we know ways you can change your diet that will help: Increase your overall diet “quality”. Eat lots of fruits and vegetables. Avoid processed food. Especially avoid processed meats. Eat food with low caloric density. Avoid added sugar. Avoid alcohol. Avoid processed food. > I know this is hard. You could even argue it’s un…

It seems like the person is fighting the good fight, maybe, but who is Dynomight? These random bloggers/influencers speaking from self-proclaimed high ground is in large part how we got in this mess. There are a gazillion people out there who know how to say the right things, to get the right minds, the click the right "follow" buttons, none of which has any bearing on truth, honesty, or accuracy.

>These random bloggers/influencers speaking from self-proclaimed high ground is in large part how we got in this mess. There are a gazillion people out there who know how to say the right things, to get the right minds, the click the right "follow" buttons, none of which has any bearing on truth, honesty, or accuracy.

Did you get to the end? He addresses that.

>I’ll just be honest. I think this view is completely indefensible. I feel embarrassed when I see people promoting it. You’re sure? How? I don’t see any way to get to this conclusion other than heavily filtering the evidence—ignoring the flaws in everything that supports a predetermined view while scrambling to find flaws in everything that contradicts it.

>Again, I’m sure you can send me long lists of random citations. (You don’t need to send them; it’s OK; I’ve seen them already.) But for anything that’s been studied in detail, there’s always lots of evidence to support any semi-plausible view. Do you have any idea how much evidence people can produce for UFOs or chronic Lyme or colloidal silver?

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