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No more JetBrains products for me

matthewkosarek.xyz

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Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#181

Post by maratc »

smackeyacky wrote: post #127
antonvs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why people do this. What’s the reasoning?

I wonder this too. It’s much harder to back into a cramped parking space than backing out into an open space. So they do it very slowly. Watching people do this is frustrating.

> It’s much harder to back into a cramped parking space than backing out into an open space.

With cramped parking spaces, your real options are (a) backing into it or (b) driving forward into it. When you need to have a 90 degree turn, option (a) gives you more control over the eventual position of your car, and is frequently the only option.

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#182

Post by znpy »

> But there is one teeny tiny problem: the tool is so fricken slow.

Reminds me about that time i was working at one of the very large cloud providers. I had to edit a script in a source code repository and somehow the direction was something like "download the correct jetbrains ide, connect it to the internal license server, install the 20 plugins to make it work with the internal source code service, the internal code review service, the internal build service, the internal this and the internal that".

Spent like two days installing half of the shit and losing myself among the infinity of wiki pages explaining how to configure this hyper-dimensional tetris.

Then i gave up and just opened good old gnu emacs on my cloud desktop. Thank god there was an internal emacs user group that had written a few major and minor modes to work with the internal tooling.

I was done setting everything up in like one hour.

I unironically spent two years and a half working in gnu emacs running in a screen session, and it was much more productive than whatever jetbrains stuff they were recommending.

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#183

Post by jiehong »

manfredve wrote: post #101
jiehong wrote: post #44

Jetbrains’ good deterministic refactoring tools are what I like from them (and debugging). Other than that, I must agree with this article.

Have you found a good replacement for that in other editors? I hate it when I try to refactor or rename something in VSCode, which can be done deterministically, but it tries to use AI for it, which can mess things up.

It's not that easy. LSP does not have a standard way to expose things not specified. So, at best you need an LSP server exposing more + the LSP client to also understand it [2].

The best that comes to mind is nvim-jdtls [0].

Maybe at some point the LSP spec could be extended with more refactoring, or maybe there could be a open rewrite LSP server [1].

I wouldn't expect intellij to release a LSP server with all the refactoring tools, though.

[0]: https://codeberg.org/mfussenegger/nvim-jdtls

[1]: https://docs.openrewrite.org/

[2]: https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/specifi...

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#184

Post by pjmlp »

barrkel wrote: post #178
pjmlp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what? I rather have my agents talking to my IDEs.

There are people who move into the future, and there are those who stick their heads in the sand. It was ever thus. There's still room for something vaguely IDE shaped, but it's not going to be code oriented.

I have been coding since 1986, pleny of futures have come by.

Eventually you learn to figure out which gold diggers will get lucky when the caravan crosses town.

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#185

Post by pjmlp »

ryanolsonx wrote: post #25
pjmlp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I have read that, and whatever, some people rather walk straight away, because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. I have IDE tooling experience since Borland products for MS-DOS, and plenty of programming editors as well, between PC, Amiga, Mac and UNIX clones.

Idk what car you have but mine can drive right away, just like Zed.

Depending on the planet region, and season, you might actually have to wait before driving.

Frozen Winters, heavy snow, diesel pumps,....

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#186

Post by pjmlp »

kstrauser wrote: post #171
pjmlp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't, unless it magically got them since XEmacs, with someone taking the effort to duplicate all features in ELisp. Running gdb as subprocess, with breakpoints, step, run, continue, is the basic stuff.

It has. GUD is pretty good. Emacs itself has improved vastly since XEmacs was popular.

Looks pretty much the same from the docs.

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#187

Post by pjmlp »

aki237 wrote: post #167
kstrauser wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had you honestly imagined that Emacs doesn't have excellent debugging tools?

Recently been using emacs' inbuilt debugger. Honestly it is nuts, how good it is.

Now try to visually display all the threads being executed and the dependency graph who launched each thread.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/usin...

Followed by doing some code change and hot reloading it into the debugging session.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/debugger/edit...

While using binaries compiled in release build by default,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnbO140OXuI

All of it in C++.

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#188

Post by poulpy123 »

Since many people are asking "how old", Here the numbers on my laptop:

- OS : windows - CPU : i7-1365U - GPU: no idea, probably Intel or a low end Nvidia - RAM: 32 Gb

The time to load (TtL) is defined as the time between I start the program and the IDE has completely loaded (nothing load or spin or whatever). For each test I open the IDE once first in order for potential updates and changes in configuration to apply, then I close.

Pycharm, clean install - no plugins, TtL to empty dashboard: 60s. Ttl to a small python project: 60s

VScode, old install with several plugins : TtL to empty dashboard: 8s. TtL to a small python project: 20s

Zed, clean install - no plugin: TtL to empty page: 2s. TtL to a small python project: 4.4s

Re: No more JetBrains products for me

#190

Post by xigoi »

pjmlp wrote: post #21
wiseowise wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while JetBrains products are full-blown IDEs, with abilities Zed will never offer. None of those matter if they just close the IDE before it indexes. > When all of these tiny issues come together, it makes me NOT want to program. I don’t want to sit around and wait for startup times to get my ideas onto the screen. I don’t want to worry that my CPU or RAM is going to be exhausted and I am going to have to restart m…

Yes I have read that, and whatever, some people rather walk straight away, because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. I have IDE tooling experience since Borland products for MS-DOS, and plenty of programming editors as well, between PC, Amiga, Mac and UNIX clones.

If a text editor is a car, an IDE is an airplane. You can get to more places with it, but you need a lot of space and time to even start moving and then it consumes a ridiculous amount of fuel.
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