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German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

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Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#181

Post by krater23 »

ArnoVW wrote: post #110
lukan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speeding debate won't go away with this, though, as speeding is not about oil.

I believe the idea is that friction and resistance is proportional to the square of the speed. After a certain speed, every 10 mph extra starts to really count in your mileage.

The idea is that some green ideologists think that when they don't need to drive a car because they don't leave their city, no one needs to drive a car. Because car driving creates CO2 which means car driving is bad. And they search for ways to implement that or make driving a car as bad as possible. Because they can't make the Deutsche Bahn better, they have to make driving your own car worse.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#182

Post by notpushkin »

kodebach wrote: post #177
ibbtown wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a trusted device chain needed? It will put more trust in the potential Chinese device maker and American software companies than the user who's id is shown?

Simply because the law was written that way. But also the whole idea of identity verification becomes pretty useless, if there is no chain of trust. You could run a modified client that lets you assume any identity you choose, exactly the opposite of what eIDAS is trying to achieve.

> You could run a modified client that lets you assume any identity you choose

Provided you know the secret key to a government-issued certificate. Making it impossible to copy said certificate is not really a requirement for identity verification.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#183

Post by krater23 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #84
hhh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it affects a tiny percentage of people today, so why would they see it as impacting them?

Do people in Europe not intuitively understand that willingly making yourself [more] dependent on a foreign corporation is disadvantageous to you?

No, most people aren't interested at all. They say it will nothing happen. Changed a little bit since Trump, but not enough to have really impact.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#184

Post by TeMPOraL »

hhh wrote: post #76
baxtr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think because most people, even tech savvy ones don’t understand how this might effect their lives. It’s too abstract. At least how it’s portrayed here. Contrast that with chat control. My government can read my WhatsApp messages? Not good! What’s the non-technical narrative here?

Well, it affects a tiny percentage of people today, so why would they see it as impacting them?

"My government can read my XXX" also affects only a tiny percentage of people today, but due to historical precedents and a lot of history and civics lessons, everyone thinks it affects them personally.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#185

Post by kodebach »

RandomGerm4n wrote: post #99

I attestation should be abolished altogether. An app should have absolutely no way of knowing what kind of device it’s running on or what changes the user has made to the system. It is up to each individual to ensure the security of their own device. App developers should do no more than offer recommendations. If someone wants to use GrapheneOS, root their device (not recommended), or run the whole thing in an emulat…

I agree, you should be able to run anything you want, root your device, etc., but you also have to accept the consequences of that. If an app can no longer verify its own integrity, certain features are simply impossible to implement securely.

Think of it this way: A physical ID (which is what we're trying to replace here) also has limitations, it looks a certain way, has a certain size, etc. Just because somebody wants a smaller ID or one with a larger font or a passport in a different colour or whatever, doesn't mean that this should be allowed or possible. Some limitations exist for a good reason

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#186

Post by [deleted] »

darccio wrote: post #114

It makes no sense. eIDAS 2.0 specs don't require specific hardware [0]. They basically store verifiable credentials [1] and any other cryptographically signed attestations. This feels like laziness from German implementers, as they don't want to (quoting the spec literally) "implement a mechanism allowing the User to verify the authenticity of the Wallet Unit". 0: https://eudi.dev/latest/architecture-and-reference-fr…

[deleted]

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#187

Post by ghighi7878 »

webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

Tbh, I feel this is stupid.

Banks are giving out QR Tan. Optical TAN devices which work with credit cards and it has been going pretty well. Why can eiDAS not have something similar. Distribute hardware tokens. Get rid of dependency on any OS.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#188

Post by AnthonyMouse »

krater23 wrote: post #181
ArnoVW wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the idea is that friction and resistance is proportional to the square of the speed. After a certain speed, every 10 mph extra starts to really count in your mileage.

The idea is that some green ideologists think that when they don't need to drive a car because they don't leave their city, no one needs to drive a car. Because car driving creates CO2 which means car driving is bad. And they search for ways to implement that or make driving a car as bad as possible. Because they can't make the Deutsche Bahn better, they have to make driving your own car worse.

But then why not just make car driving not create CO2?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#189

Post by maccard »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #171
archerx wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I don’t have a smartphone?

You're screwed. This has been the way for a while now. You cannot exist in society without a smart phone and it's only going to get worse.

If you can't exist in society without a smart phone already, how is it going to get worse?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#190

Post by tsoukase »

EU depending so much on Goo/App feels suspicious for direct lobbying, as someone noted. If I were Ursula, I would draw a red line: no US digital dependence. But the rounding error of the rounding error of these trillion dollar companies is enough to expunge the nonexistent EU infra.
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