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German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

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Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#111

Post by indrora »

testing22321 wrote: post #72
cebert wrote: post #30

I am shocked that there isn’t more opposition from the general public to policies like this that erode privacy and freedom. I am a parent and can appreciate the need to control what children do on the internet, but at some point parents need to parent. I fear we’re giving up a lot of freedom and adding unneeded complexity under the guise of keeping children safe.

What percentage of people have a phone that is not apple or google?

My uncle has lost 4 Google accounts. Two to password loss, one to a fire, one to being banned for crimes against currency (having the audacity to live in several countries with different currencies)

The issue isn't the phone, it's that a __government__ is depending on an unregulated private enterprise.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#112

Post by AnthonyMouse »

herbst wrote: post #101
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people in Europe not intuitively understand that willingly making yourself [more] dependent on a foreign corporation is disadvantageous to you?

Do people outside of Europe do not understand how Germany is just a small fraction of Europe.

People in Texas are in the US, right?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#113

Post by baxtr »

herbst wrote: post #108
not_that_d wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, it influences a lot in the EU

I don't think they influence more than France does. But I don't know, I live in Europe but don't care for the EU

Don’t feel bad! The EU cares about you as much as you care about the EU.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#114

Post by darccio »

It makes no sense. eIDAS 2.0 specs don't require specific hardware [0]. They basically store verifiable credentials [1] and any other cryptographically signed attestations.

This feels like laziness from German implementers, as they don't want to (quoting the spec literally) "implement a mechanism allowing the User to verify the authenticity of the Wallet Unit".

0: https://eudi.dev/latest/architecture-and-reference-framework...

1: https://eudi.dev/latest/architecture-and-reference-framework...

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#115

Post by _3u10 »

jakoblorz wrote: post #80

What if you „lose“ your google / apple account, like this sanctioned judge of the international criminal court? Crazy to imagine that we are still baking in dependency on US providers in european societies, even though there is clear indications we should be doing the opposite?

[flagged]

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#116

Post by fpoling »

raverbashing wrote: post #52
0x_rs wrote: post #36

Does this mean sanctioned individuals, such as those in the International Criminal Court, would be unable to access eIDAS, among other things? As it requires, from my understanding, installing app(s) from the play store, thus requiring an account there and being able to access it, which isn't happening if you're among those or really, in any group that might get the same treatment in the future.

Yes? I don't think it's a bad idea though. If only for bringing the issue to the public And while I do think an alternative would be good, the fact is that protecting the private key is the most important part (for example by keeping it on a smartcard with NFD) - hence why the need for a secure device "but I want to install alternative Android etc etc" yes that's fine - but you know this is a non-secure-(enough) env.

Physical SIM cards are just as secure as the security enclave on the phone. In Norway few years ago banks even used that for secure authentication that worked on dumb phones with local mobile network providers pre-installing the required software on their SIM cards.

But then to save cost including the support cost banks stopped and instead started to require a non-rooted Android/iPhone.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#117

Post by aparadja »

_3u10 wrote: post #115
jakoblorz wrote: post #80

What if you „lose“ your google / apple account, like this sanctioned judge of the international criminal court? Crazy to imagine that we are still baking in dependency on US providers in european societies, even though there is clear indications we should be doing the opposite?

[flagged]

This tone is not very suitable for HN. I’m sure you could start a better discussion if you gave it a proper try.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#118

Post by bluecalm »

gmerc wrote: post #55
cebert wrote: post #30

I am shocked that there isn’t more opposition from the general public to policies like this that erode privacy and freedom. I am a parent and can appreciate the need to control what children do on the internet, but at some point parents need to parent. I fear we’re giving up a lot of freedom and adding unneeded complexity under the guise of keeping children safe.

Germany is distracted with its version of “the gun debate” aka speed limits. Like every school shooting, every energy crisis brings opportunity to saturate the airwaves with shallow noise that gets people overly upset and they’ll ignore everything else. Every player on both sides is abusing this mechanic for all eternity.

Imagine we had real democracy where people vote on issues. Speed limits? Vote once every 7 years or so on it and be done with it. Same for abortion laws, drug laws, gambling laws. Have a debate, vote, come back to it in 7 years if there is public interest. Preferably vote locally on issues that can be applied locally (like speed limits/enforcement etc.).

Public debate and assessing politicians and parties would be so much cleaner then if they couldn't use polarizing issues to rally their support and do w/e they please on all other issues.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#119

Post by debazel »

jakoblorz wrote: post #80

What if you „lose“ your google / apple account, like this sanctioned judge of the international criminal court? Crazy to imagine that we are still baking in dependency on US providers in european societies, even though there is clear indications we should be doing the opposite?

You wouldn't even have to be a high profile target like a sanctioned judge. Simply getting your account banned by some automated process that marked you as "suspicious" will basically render you excluded from society.

It is absolutely insane to put this amount of power in 2 foreign companies that will be able to destroy your life with zero reason, oversight, or due process.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#120

Post by rep_lodsb »

izacus wrote: post #56
seba_dos1 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as "legitimacy of the bootloader, OS" that can be verified by someone who isn't the device's user. The bootloader that booted the phone I type this on is patched by me, which makes it more "legitimate" than any other bootloader that could be placed there.

Sorry but this is nonsense - most users, even the Linux toting power users - don't have the time, ability or knowledge to verify the contents of their OS in a way that would catch issues prevented by attestation. The problem with modified phones containing malware is very real and unless you want a full on Apple "you're not allowed to touch the OS" model you need some kind of audited OS verification that you as a use…

There's also a problem with unmodified phones containing malware, namely an operating system made by an advertising company, which is designed to collect as much information about you as possible.

And this malware is largely based on open source code (Linux) that was originally developed on open, documented hardware, where the firmware boot loader did nothing more than load the first 512 bytes of your hard disk to address 0x7c00 and transfer complete control to it.

Yes, there were viruses that exploited this openness, but imagine if Linus Torvalds would have needed a cryptographic certificate from IBM or Microsoft to be allowed to run his own code! This is basically the situation we have today, and if you don't see how dystopian this is, I don't know what more to say.

I will never understand why such an overwhelming majority of people seem to just accept this. When frigging barcodes where introduced, there were widespread conspiracy theories about it being the Mark of the Beast -- ridiculous of course, but look at now where in some places you literally can't buy or sell without carrying around a device that is hostile to your interests. And soon it will be mandated by the state for everyone.

Google must be destroyed.

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