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UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

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Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#181

Post by ASalazarMX »

sdoering wrote: post #102
moritonal wrote: post #77

I don't get why the device changes the blame logic. If child-services knew a parent was constantly watching/leaving around adult-content near children, that'd be considered the parents fault. If a parent lets a kid watch anything they want on TV and the kid watches adult content, it's the parents fault. But if the parent gives the child a phone, and doesn't manage what apps they use or content they watch, now it's th…

I could just as easily turn this argument around: If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable. If they sold me beer before I was 16, same situation. Analogous for cigarettes. Or me trying to enter an amusement arcade (with monetary gains possible, not just pinball l…

> If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable.

Except this can only be fair if they carded everyone who buys liquor, not only people who appear young, otherwise it's subjective, and businesses shouldn't be liable if a tall, bearded teen buys vodka, because he looks older than 18.

Of course, in reality, liquor store cashiers are allowed to judge subjectively, but VPN providers won't be allowed to. And they'll probably be asked to share records of registered adults in the future, given the repeated efforts to backdoor encryption in the same UK. This is unlikely to be only about protecting the children.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#182

Post by qcnguy »

direwolf20 wrote: post #142
simion314 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does router setting spply when the child is at school and using data? I do not think so. So you need to have the averager parent setup DNS records and probably pay some subscription to soem people doing the filtering? It is not easy, if there was just a simple toggle and iOS/Android would ask the parent what kind of religious extremist or prude they are and then do the filtering then sure, but you want a parent to kn…

The Uk could force the OS to have that toggle instead of censoring the internet

[dead]

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#183

Post by zrn900 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #9

Just for clarification. House of Lords amendments do not have to be accepted by the House of Commons and may not make it into law. If you do not agree with an amendment then write to your MP, write to the ministers concerned. If you do not tell them your concerns they will not know. You can ask for an appointment with your MP. You can ask for an appointment with ministers. Better still you can form an advocacy group…

> House of Lords amendments do not have to be accepted by the House of Commons and may not make it into law

Except the Lords can send back a law indefinitely until the Commons accepts it. There have been cases in which laws were sent back 60 times until what the Lords wanted was added. A house with hereditary posts with infinite veto power.

The UK is not democracy. It never was.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#184

Post by qcnguy »

chrisjj wrote: post #98
RansomStark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

political dissent. Uncomfortable truths. Any speech that does not align with the official narrative. A Labour MP foolish attended a GB News show and when pushed admitted that the Online Safety Act was also about identifying speech by adults [0]. Sorry about the quality of the link, but the video is there (higher quality is available on X) and its not like the paragon of truth that is the BBC reported on this. https:/…

> political dissent. Uncomfortable truths. Any speech that does not align with the official narrative. No, this age verification is not against that.

[dead]

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#185

Post by traceroute66 »

fartfeatures wrote: post #37
wlkr wrote: post #24

I'm very interested to see how some VPN providers react to this. For a zero logs VPN provider, if such a thing can really exist, how big of a problem is this? Presumably many customers pay with a debit/credit card already so there's some PII on file? Usage remains the same? Surely savvy people can just use their existing VPN to buy a VPN from outside the UK. Of course, we're sliding quite rapidly down that slippery s…

There are already solutions that do the double VPN thing for you. For example https://obscura.net

> For example https://obscura.net

Obscura ....

"Terms and the relationship between you and Obscura shall be governed by the laws of the State of New York"

Yeah, erm.

Now more than ever, trusting a US jurisdiction VPN provider ? No thanks !

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#186

Post by whynotmaybe »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #181
sdoering wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could just as easily turn this argument around: If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable. If they sold me beer before I was 16, same situation. Analogous for cigarettes. Or me trying to enter an amusement arcade (with monetary gains possible, not just pinball l…

> If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable. Except this can only be fair if they carded everyone who buys liquor, not only people who appear young, otherwise it's subjective, and businesses shouldn't be liable if a tall, bearded teen buys vodka, because he looks…

I bought a product that requires ID verification in Massachusetts and the cashier couldn't complete the transaction without scanning my driver's license.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#187

Post by fartfeatures »

traceroute66 wrote: post #185
fartfeatures wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already solutions that do the double VPN thing for you. For example https://obscura.net

> For example https://obscura.net Obscura .... "Terms and the relationship between you and Obscura shall be governed by the laws of the State of New York" Yeah, erm. Now more than ever, trusting a US jurisdiction VPN provider ? No thanks !

> Now more than ever, trusting a US jurisdiction VPN provider ? No thanks !

The whole point of Obscura is you aren't trusting any single company. A Swedish company and an American company would need to collude to cause a problem. Unless you know something I don't?

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#188

Post by fartfeatures »

chrisjj wrote: post #92
wlkr wrote: post #24

I'm very interested to see how some VPN providers react to this. For a zero logs VPN provider, if such a thing can really exist, how big of a problem is this? Presumably many customers pay with a debit/credit card already so there's some PII on file? Usage remains the same? Surely savvy people can just use their existing VPN to buy a VPN from outside the UK. Of course, we're sliding quite rapidly down that slippery s…

> Surely savvy people can just use their existing VPN to buy a VPN from outside the UK. Surely they can simply buy that direct ... at least until the Govt. requires ISP to blacklist.

Sadly if you look at how the law is drafted its setup to catch companies that have a significant UK base not just those that advertise here. It is highly likely for compliance reasons (as we saw with imgur and others) that they will simply block the UK themselves.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#189

Post by sdoering »

luplex wrote: post #131
sdoering wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could just as easily turn this argument around: If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable. If they sold me beer before I was 16, same situation. Analogous for cigarettes. Or me trying to enter an amusement arcade (with monetary gains possible, not just pinball l…

the problem is that devices are meant to be tools. They do not provide access to services, but you use them to access them. Limiting my devices' ability to do what i ask of them is more like geofencing my shoes, because you might use them to walk to the casino.

Sorry, if I was not clear enough. I explicitly did not want to limit devices - on the contrary. I am all for my device, my ability to use it how I like.

I meant that it is the responsibility of Facebook/Meta/Instagram to ensure that content is age appropriate - given the laws, rules and regulations of the country they are delivering the content to.

I mean, clearly it should be in the responsibility of p*nhub not only to ask "Are you over 18"? If I had this form of freely available porn, clearly I would have clicked it. Or respective subreddits.

Clearly and totally fine for consenting adults. Not so much for my 13 year old self a few decades back.

Re: UK House of Lords Votes to Extend Age Verification to VPNs

#190

Post by sdoering »

pardon_me wrote: post #161
sdoering wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could just as easily turn this argument around: If my younger self, went into a store to buy a bottle of Vodka, before I came of age at 18 here in Germany, it wasn't my parents fault. It was the shop that did not check my license that was liable. If they sold me beer before I was 16, same situation. Analogous for cigarettes. Or me trying to enter an amusement arcade (with monetary gains possible, not just pinball l…

The company should be responsible for providing options to block all or part of the content, and warn users of the content type, depending on their place in the pipeline. For example, Apple and Google should provide tools for the parents to set up a device appropriately for a child, much like the shop should not sell alcohol to underage customers. Similarly, content producers should specifically need to label content…

Back in the day, I was able to enter a video rental store without ID. But the erotic section was cordoned of to my younger self.

Today, my younger self would go to Reddit, click any of the myriads of subreddits catering to any kink and just click "yes", when being prompted to ensure he is old enough to view NSFW content. Or on p*nhub. Or anywhere. I actually do not care for tobacco or liquor advertising. I did not become an lsd eating circle for playing PacMan. Nor did I become an alcoholic for watching hundreds hours of alcohol advertising till coming of age in Germany.

So why ask for an ID when entering the internet (supermarket) instead of fining the respective companies into oblivion, if they allow minors in? Why burden the tax payer with an infrastructure? Make the companies making a shitload of money pay for ensuring they adhere to the law. Because actually allowing minors access to hardcore porn is - at least here - already illegal. But hey, we can't enforce it, because it is the internet.

Sorry, but I am just not a fan of setting up a society wide system, that tells the big advertisers: This is a real person. Or even: This is Joe Schimansky from so and so, age this and that. This is not any data the likes of Meta or Google should have.

Nor should the government have a system in place that enables them to track who gets verified for what content.

If private entities want to make money from content that is not fit for minors - they need to pay to ensure it isn't accessed. Or carry the consequences.

I know, I can get riled up. But quite a few of these initiatives to me either smell like regulatory capture and/or like a convenient way of monitoring society.

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