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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#181

Post by xiphias2 »

frogperson wrote: post #143
Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

The main thing holding EV back is the oil industry, not the tech. The US is the only country lagging on EV and its all because the industry puts so much effort in to squashing all progress. EVs are simpler and cheaper. Look at how fast adoption is growing outside the US. If US citizens could buy a BYD for the same price as in China, the the US auto makers and oil companies would be in trouble.

It's not only US, it's global.

I drive quite a lot throught southern Europe with my EV, and it's super frustrating that gas stations have the infrastructure on the highway while for my EV I have to go just outside the highway to a fast charger (wasting time), then I need to pay again (and waste a lot of time to go through the gate) to get back on the highway for example in Italy.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#182

Post by remove-resolve »

a4isms wrote: post #42
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> A pickup truck should just be max utility A working truck should be max utility. Around the core market of "working trucks," there are various wannabe truck products that do not have to be max utility. For example, a Subaru Brat or a Hyundai Santa Fe. Niche products compared to an F-150, but they had/have their fans. I personally can't stand the design, but the idea of an impractical "halo vehicle" that appeals to…

I can't speak for the Santa Fe, but most Brat owners admit they have no intention of using it as a utility vehicle. The same cannot be said for most F-150 owners I know.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#183

Post by alexjplant »

grouchomarx wrote: post #20
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one

The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bimonthly runs to Home Depot to buy caulk and lightbulbs. Independent tradesman can write them off as work vehicles or, allegedly, use COVID-era PPP loans to buy them.

It's the suburban equivalent of a yuppie's Rolex Submariner. Investment bankers generally don't go scuba diving and if they did a dive computer would be vastly preferable.

I say all of that to say that making a pickup truck for that market segment isn't a bad idea from a numbers perspective. You just can't market it as a luxury vehicle because the whole point is that it is but it isn't.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#184

Post by Spooky23 »

ActorNightly wrote: post #82
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

>A pickup truck should just be max utility, The problem is as soon as you go EV, you use a lot of utility from the get go. With a truck specifically, because its a brick aerodynamically. There is no reason to buy a Cybertruck or Lightning when you can get a gas or hybrid F150 (or a Raptor) for a little bit more, and be able to sit at 80 mph on highways without worrying about range. The biggest suprise about the light…

My brother has one, it is an amazing vehicle with better range performance than Tesla. It's dramatically better in the snow. Towing of large loads is a valid downside, but reality is that most people don't tow, and people who do are probably fine with 80% of the use cases (construction trailers, lawn trailers, etc).

The business problem Tesla solved at Ford cannot is the dealer network. He pre-ordered his, and the dealer he was stuck with tried to rip him off like 4 different ways.

The other issue is that car guys are afraid of electric, as the entire supporting industry is essentially obsolete. It's hard to get excited about something that will take away your ability to pay your mortgage. Every car dealer employee and mechanic knows that.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#185

Post by Dylan16807 »

miltonlost wrote: post #102
barbazoo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tragedy of the commons.

Tragedy of not having better regulations. The commons don't have anything to do with it.

Some of the motivations to get vehicles like that, like being up higher than everyone and having more mass in a collision, are solidly tragedy of the commons.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#186

Post by jazzyjackson »

matwood wrote: post #147
billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

> Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit I think the Cybertruck was DOA and his involvement in politics got people who shared his views to buy one in order to signal the same.

Also the fact that many truck deliveries were literally DOA as in the truck bricked itself in the driveway.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#187

Post by pixl97 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #133
mdavid626 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

Range is the misconception, because people view range through the "sit and fill up then drive till empty" paradigm. That is not how EVs work or how they should be used. They should be charged overnight/when you are doing something else, and on road trips should be charged to align with other stops even if those stops are 10 minutes. It's rare that I have ever done the "sit in the car for 40 minutes waiting for charge…

The big problem here is we need a hybrid stage in between.

I have a hybrid now, it's still a conventional powertrain, and it's not chargeable. That's not exactly what I want, but it's what I could get.

I want a fully electric drive train hybrid with around 100 miles capacity on the battery, then a generator that's big enough to keep it running if the battery is drained.

100 miles gets you through the average day without having to use gas.

An electric drive train turns your engine to a generator that runs at a fixed speed and is more efficient. It also massively reduces the complexity turning into a system more like an EV.

And, if I go on a long trip, the car still gets me to where I'm going without charges (unless I choose to so I can save gas).

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#188

Post by mdavid626 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #66
loeg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have worse prices (higher) and worse range (lower, particularly for towing). These aren't misconceptions. (My only car is an EV that I'm happy with. But lying about EVs doesn't benefit advocates.)

> They have worse prices (higher) Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? > worse range (lower, particularly for towing) Towing reduces a gas powered car’s range, too.

(Towing) You can fill it up in 5 min.

Not true for EV.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#189

Post by adw »

catigula wrote: post #114
a4isms wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lifestyle sells. I drive a wagon. Of course wagon owners talk about the utility. And yet, you can buy a wagon with a twin-turbo V8 engine. What's the "sportwagon" segment all about? Certainly not going to Home Depot to buy four toilets for the new house, it's about putting your $15,000 Cannondale Black Ink MTB on the roof and swanking up to the trailhead.

The brain is a confabulation/justification engine. In reality ideal utility is likely found in the shape of a 2008 Toyota Camry and a U-Haul truck rental when necessary.

More like a 2001 Renault Clio. Camrys are already bloatware.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#190

Post by Lammy »

slg wrote: post #132
Lammy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, anybody who puts a sticker on their car apologizing for owning it is somebody who bought it to make a statement. I bought mine because I researched best gas mileage, lowest ongoing maintenance cost, and dimensions that fit the the city, and that's what I came up with.

>Yes, anybody who puts a sticker on their car apologizing for owning it is somebody who bought it to make a statement. Or the opposite, buying the car wasn't a statement at the time and they don't like that driving it feels like a statement now so they got a bumper sticker to acknowledge that their continued ownership is not a statement of support for Musk and his ideology.

Real ones wouldn't be thinking about it at all.
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