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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#181

Post by StarGrit »

crazygringo wrote: post #106
rtpg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. - No apology - No "we stopped the bot for now" "We're sorry for how you feel" is enterprise for "we think you're whining". Maybe not what the person meant but ho…

> - No apology - No "we stopped the bot for now" "We're sorry for how you feel" is enterprise for "we think you're whining". Anyways the point is just that one side of this relationship here clearly cares about the problem way less, and _even when presented with that fact_, does not even pretend to be actually sorry for the damage they are causing. This is just a single initial reply from a "community support manager…

It is well known passive aggressive corporate phrase to shut people up. Who it is used by is largely irrelevant, it almost always means the same thing.

Re: End of Japanese community

#182

Post by numpad0 »

jameson wrote: post #161
numpad0 wrote: post #147

Isn't it fascinating that despite `while true; do claude --yolo` over a weekend being all it takes to port some project across platforms, LLMs completely fall apart when it comes to speaking grammatical and natural Japanese? Free tier Gemini CLI literally writes Android app for me by just endlessly wondering in English. AGI's here. And it struggles with Japanese. How!?

> struggles with Japanese It doesn't mention mistranslating, so it's difficult to know the root of the problem is AI "struggling". > It doesn't follow our translation guidelines. > It doesn't respect current localization for Japanese users, so they were lost. I believe this is the root of the problem. There are define processes and guidelines, and LLM isn't following it. Whether these guidelines were prompted or not…

That's not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that LLMs just can't constitute a punctually Japanese understanding of text like that guideline and speak in Japanese with native fluency no matter what. I just know this from knowing both sides of English-Japanese language pair. And I find that somewhat fascinating in a sense.

Re: End of Japanese community

#183

Post by f33d5173 »

krick wrote: post #50
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

[flagged]

They had specific complaints. Either say, "we're willing to work to change the things that you're complaining about", or say, "sorry, we're not going to change those things". The wishy washy bullshit they did is effectively ignoring the guy. They're ignoring everything the person said. And it definitely comes across as "sorry not sorry" corporate bullshit.

Re: End of Japanese community

#184

Post by tyre »

mkagenius wrote: post #118
davidclark wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be the anger comes from implication that is a possible solution at all. This type of “hop on a call” request is not usually actually designed to “truly understand what you're struggling with.” (words from the post) Instead it is usually a PR tactic. The goal of the call requester is to get your acquiescence. Most people are less likely to be confrontational and stand up for themselves when presented wi…

Are we reading too much into one sentence? HN comments dese days

I don’t think so. Working in tech with many busy people, I say “hop on a call”, but only in “let’s sync live, it’ll be faster” situations.

This stuck out to me as rude. I would never say that to someone on my team who expressed serious concerns, far less than this person quitting after years of dedication.

I would offer an apology, explanation, and follow up questions to understand more in public, then say I’m happy to set up time to talk privately if they would like to or feel more comfortable.

Re: End of Japanese community

#185

Post by Giorgi »

It looks like companies are doubling down on shitty AI bots to cut their costs even though it is backfiring terribly, like in Facebook case where they spent billions on their AI and all it did - just banned millions of their core userbase (and still banning). Looks like we will see more companies imploding because they relay to much on subpar AI.

Re: End of Japanese community

#186

Post by rramadass »

kaveh_h wrote: post #17

Some people do these type of contribution or charity work not just to do some good but also to feel some autonomy and mastery in a world were much of the regular top down driven drudgery work does not provide much of that feeling. These people are canaries in the coal mine. I expect more people feel a loss of purpose and rise of anxiety and depression in the world.

Exactly right!

With the AI juggernaut picking up steam, i expect this is going to happen sooner rather than later.

That said, Mozilla clearly handled this the wrong way; they should have informed the volunteers before throwing the switch.

Re: End of Japanese community

#187

Post by eschatology »

Arnt wrote: post #47
TheJoeMan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of internet RFC’s… like by the time they are formally published, no the author is not interested in your “comment”.

I've written a few RFCs. For any RFC, there will be a "comment" after publication from someone who did not take earlier comments seriously enough to read them.

Exactly the attitude described by GP comment

Mind boggling

Re: End of Japanese community

#188

Post by ssivark »

crazygringo wrote: post #74
dingnuts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and actually understanding their contributors would require a lot more than a fucking "quick call" that's the problem. stop thinking about the org and think about the person. these are volunteers who feel taken advantage of, being met with corporate jargon fly out and take him to dinner if you actually give a shit. or write a check. a "quick call" is so insulting

What are you talking about? A quick call is a courteous first step . The other person might not have time for a long call, so you want to show you're respecting their time. Then you follow it up with a longer meeting with the relevant engineer and manager, etc. "Taking someone to dinner" is not the first step here. The way to show you care is by trying to understand the situation before anything else. There is no wor…

The way to show you care is by having a meeting of the minds before you shove your changes in their face. The fact that the deployment was done carelessly demonstrates disregard.

I doubt "take them out to dinner" is the right solution in this situation, but any attempt at redressal must understand the above point and acknowledge it publicly.

"Ask for forgiveness rather than permission" is far from universally true, and carries massive cultural baggage. You cannot operate within that framework and expect all humans to cooperate with you.

Re: End of Japanese community

#189

Post by moonlet »

rtpg wrote: post #101
krick wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine what you mean, but since I am not in Japan, it would be interesting why you feel that way.

long and slow consensus building that weighs existing stakeholder's opinions heavily vs doing "the right thing" from the outset. So you move slowly and end up having very annoying conversations and compromises instead of just pushing something through. And the formal process is just a formality anyways, so then anyone not in the informal chatter just gets to experience the capriciousness anyways The sort of consensus…

Who cares if they’re wrong? The point is respect for their opinions and feelings since you’ll have to work with them for twenty years. If you respect them, you get to do what you want to do and they won’t fuck with you or shoot down your proposal.

To be clear this is Japan we’re talking about with the twenty years part. The same thing applies in the US but on smaller timescales though. If people feel appreciated and respected and you have good relationships, they will basically back whatever you want.

Re: End of Japanese community

#190

Post by pnathan »

ezoe wrote: post #107
pnathan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be curious if that is how Japanese courts would view it. They may not consider that a valid way. Or they might. But different jurisdictions vary.

There are some discussion if the whole concept of "license" fits under Japanese law. I think it's understood as "a contract to allow the usage of otherwise restricted work by copyright etc under conditions" But I'm not a lawyer so I don't know and in real business, they casually use the word "license" in Japan. But in my opinion, everything is contract under Japanese law.

Yeah - I know in US law some terms are simply unenforceable and void. Much of the FOSS movement is designed around US contract law. There are issues with some US licenses being enforceable under other legal regimes - I was chatting a decade or so ago with a Russian who understood the...GPL(? I don't remember exactly) to be invalid in Russia and so it had to be bundled in some fashion to be usable.

Or to put another way, a license (a contract) is a tuple (terms, jurisdiction), and the juridical evaluation process will take both into account.

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