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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#181

Post by masklinn »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #172
magicalhippo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter Here in Norway, new EVs are no longer allowed to be sold with AC adapters, due to the potential fire hazard. At least that's the reason I got when I purchased my current EV. Perhaps a EU thing, wouldn't surprise me.

This surprises me, given that almost every country has safer electric plugs than the US. Heat is a function of current and car chargers limit themselves to less than the current the plug is rated for. "Less than" equals 80% in the US.

It might be that the average euro is less aware of continuous draw limitations since there’s so much more power normally (compared to US residential power).

Could also be that for historical reasons you could have a house wired for 10 or 13 A and not be aware if it.

‘Course you can manage that by having the chargers limit themselves to 8A default (or even always), at 1800W that’s a very slow trickle but it’s something, and even if it does not fully cover your commute it spaces out carger stops or helps condition the battery on cold mornings.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#182

Post by guenthert »

masklinn wrote: post #178
guenthert wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to keep batteries roughly in that range to maximise their lifetime health. Huh? The car isn't doing that for you? Prius hybrids sure are (the old ones using NiMH batteries tried to keep charge between 40% and 80%).

A hybrid can do that by running the ICE (or not). An EV can do that how exactly, refusing to run? Mugging the elderly for loose kWh?

Well, stopping the car at 40% (20% for Li-ion) capacity or alternatively at 0% with dead batteries, I know what I prefer (ideally there would be an option for emergencies, perhaps disabled in rental cars ;-} .

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#183

Post by dreamcompiler »

kccqzy wrote: post #14

> they shouldn't do 16 on a 15A circuit but it seems like some do There are 20A 120V circuits too! Called NEMA 5-20, one of its prongs is rotated. You plug that into a receptacle where one of the slots is T-shaped instead of straight. And it's standard practice for EVs to draw 80% of the maximum current, so 16A it is. I see this plug in larger machines in the office, like a large photocopier or a large vacuum.

I wish I could buy an electric kettle in the US that took advantage of the 20A outlets I have all over my house. Sigh.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#184

Post by [deleted] »

joeyh wrote: post #174
fusslo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there a term like 'charge anxiety'? I was debating an electric vehicle in 2023. There are maybe 10 people (out of about 200) at work that have electric cars. My teammate is one of the ten. He wakes up early to get a charger. He tracks down the other owners to ask them to use the charger after lunch. They started a group chat about the chargers. My local grocery store has a bank of superchargers right in the middle…

I have driven 20 thousand EV miles in the past year, with 50% of my charging being at public chargers (and 50% at home). I have never needed to wait in line, and have never needed to interact with anyone regarding charging.

[deleted]

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#185

Post by ForOldHack »

Good job. I have driven ( for at least 2 trips ) a TeslaS a TeslaX, a Leaf, and EV-1... The Leaf was the easiest to use the regenerative breaking, and the very most efficient at it. Using the 80Mile model, and hand waxing the outside ( a favorite of the 100Mpg Prius group ) I was able to go 69.5 Miles, with 22% remaining. 28% more efficient than rated. This was a mostly highway traveled trip, with a bunch of city errand running at the end.

Both I and the owner were very impressed. They ordered the 100mile battery pack, which was very expensive, but it has been great in the long run.

I think it was like 81% cheaper than a gasoline trip at the time not including long term wear and tear. ( Ware and Tare?$#).

I think the Nissan Leaf is the very best of the bunch.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#186

Post by jghn »

spiffytech wrote: post #140
blitzar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.

The magnitude of person-to-person variation makes it tough to get signal out of averages. I read a blogger say a 40-mile trip is exceptionally log for him, so why worry about EV range? Meanwhile we put 160 miles on our EV yesterday doing ordinary errands that all got stacked on the same day. 100+ mile days happen a few times a month for us¹. That 160 miles is 65% of our 0–100 range, or 108% of the 20–80 range. And we…

I am not intending this as a backhanded way of suggesting your experience is invalid. I get that it's quite possible in some areas.

However, I think the point of the GP is that the number of people who say this is their typical experience is going to be larger than the number of people for whom it actually is their typical experience.

By that I mean: your story is quite common in discussions like this, both online and offline. Yet, if the mean distance is 8 miles, and we know it's going to be skewed high due to the 0 bound, it can't be all that common.

To be honest, I'd be curious to see the median here.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#187

Post by mbreese »

nottorp wrote: post #127
marcusb wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven an EV on 500 mile trips. Getting out and stretching your legs for 20-25 minutes once every three hours isn't "super annoying." If all I did was drive around all day, every day for 500 miles at a stretch, it might be, but not nearly as annoying as routinely driving for 500 miles. For most people, the vast majority of their driving takes place well within the range of the typical BEV and range anxiety is a…

This is tiring. Not everyone lives in the suburbs with a plug at ground level and getting out and stretching your legs is great when you choose where you do it but not when you do it in the queue for charging...

EVs (or having a car in general) aren’t for everyone. Or aren’t for everyone yet.

But you’re now talking about the lack of adequate charging infrastructure in an urban setting. That’s a different conversation. It’s a worthy conversation, but not all that related to making 500 mile road trips.

This summer I made two 500 mile trips (round trip each time) to drop off (and pick up) a kid at a summer camp. It was a week long camp, so I drove up and back on two weekends. I drove an electric car up the first time and a hybrid SUV up the second time.

It was fine to do in my electric car. I spent about 5 minutes making sure I had a good charging plan, which turned out to add about 10-15 extra miles to the trip. It wasn’t a problem to stop to charge, and I really wanted to stop to eat and stretch when I needed to charge, so everything worked out well timing wise. The trip in the hybrid was a little faster, but not by much. I still stopped the same number of times regardless of what car I drove.

Note: I would have happily had made the trip in my EV both times, but I had another person with me for the second trip. She hated the seats in my EV, so we took the car with more comfortable interior for the second trip. The trip in the hybrid was “nicer”, but that was because it was a more comfortable car in general, not because of the difference between an EV and hybrid.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#188

Post by ForOldHack »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #175

> I want an EV that looks like a Camry. Just blend in and don't stand out. The Camry has a drag coefficient of about 0.36. The Leaf is about 0.28. https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List Drag coefficient matters a lot for EVs. Air resistance reduces the range of all cars, but you notice the decrease in an EV. (When I plan a long trip, I use windy.com to see if I'll have a headwind or a tailwind an…

Agree. Drag coefficient is significant as well as waxing. I think almost almost a clear third was due to waxing. And it really is not that hard to do once a week.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#189

Post by illegalsmile »

rsynnott wrote: post #141
nicce wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that we can use the general "old" here. The statement should have been more explicit and include the design of the battery. If the model gets even minor updates, manufacturing is happening right now, the car is either good enough or new enough in general, and we cannot use old as negative quality. Electric motors existed before the combustion engine, and people keep talking about "rapidly evolving area"…

The problems with this car are all around the battery pack (though honestly these problems are a little exaggerated). The battery pack is, for practical purposes, a 15 year old design. This car is no longer made. When it was being made, it was the only electric car you could buy with such an old battery pack design. Buying a 2nd-gen Leaf in 2025 would be a bit silly, unless you were getting a major discount.

I have a 2025 2nd gen on lease because the deals in Colorado were insane and the previous cost of my gas basically pays for the lease + insurance + electricity. That said, unless they give me a killer deal with a major discount at the end of the lease it's going back to the dealer. I love the car and it's been perfect for around town and the region but with 70% of the lease left they want $18000 for buy out. For that price you're well within a nice used EV with active thermal management, modern charge connectors not requiring an expensive adapter, etc...

There's probably going to be a surplus of off-lease Leafs coming up over the next one to three years which might make a great deal for people who can charge at home.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#190

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sillyfluke wrote: post #133
elif wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a 6500 mile ev road trip and battery capacity means next to nothing. All that matters is the charging curve between 3% and 60%. Literally all other variables disappear over a road trip.

Nice tip. Are there lots of cars with shittier ranges but sota 3-60% charging curves? What is your acceptable target number for this metric?

The P3 Charging Index attempts to quantify this, and also documents progress over the years as they've been publishing it for 6 years now:

Porsche Kia Hyundai are currently top of the list

https://www.electrive.com/2024/12/20/p3-charging-index-2024-...

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