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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#181

Post by patmcc »

exabrial wrote: post #9

Why do you think sms "2fa" is suddenly so popular with banks and other fintechs, despite things like passkeys and u2f, you know things that _actually_ prevent people from breaking into accounts, have existed forever?

SMS 2FA is good enough for most people most of the time. It's very bad at preventing high-skill targeted attacks against individuals, but it's perfectly good at preventing mass brute-force attacks.

It's popular because it solves the problem (not ALL problems, but the one they're trying to solve) and it's easy and low-barrier to implement and use.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#182

Post by esseph »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #119
propagandist wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to think awfully highly of your ability to reason about the world, but I find your claim to be fairly lacking. This all reads like the ramblings of a 19 year old who just discovered Chomsky. Address the argument rather than engaging in ad hominem.

Show me the Americans stuck in a black hole where nobody processes their payment, banks won't handle their money, they can't vote, they can't travel, etc. because of their deviations? There are total nutjobs of all walks that are living just fine. There are actual Nazis and commies living just fine. It's a big country. If our whole society already has dystopian social credit it should be easy to find examples.

Go into a busy gas station in the US. Ask "Hey, is anybody here a felon?" (Doesn't matter if customer or if they're working there)

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#183

Post by krupan »

crazygringo wrote: post #18
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

You're right that the private vs. public is a very important distinction here. On the other hand, "private" has the downside of falling into unaccountable monopolies/duopolies. You don't have a individual choice about having a credit score, or whether banks can use it, or with which companies. You have no control, there's no accountability. If credit scores were run by the government, then in theory democratic proces…

Your "in theory" is doing a lot of work there. So much work. Have you heard about no-fly lists? The latest ICE actions? The Red Scare? Giving the government MORE power is almost never the answer.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#184

Post by finalarbiter »

card_zero wrote: post #123
mlinhares wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, there's no increase in disorder, crime in most developed countries is trending down, but we do have a bunch of people that have collected unimaginable wealth and are definitely afraid something will happen to them like the last couple times this has happened. They definitely don't want to repeat history and will use the coercion tools they have to clamp down on the peasants.

> afraid something will happen to them Because of what, the decrease in crime?

Massive wealth aside, I would argue that any decrease in crime is nullified in recent years by the increase in sensationalization of specific crimes. That is, reading "crime rates in drop to historic lows in 2025" does not have as much emotional weight as seeing a social media video of a violent crime happening near one's home, even if the statistic is true.

Consider how many children were terrified to swim in the ocean after seeing Jaws for the first time... statistics do very little to allay existing (irrational) fears for most people.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#185

Post by eloisant »

coro_1 wrote: post #176
wvenable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

> You can always move to new town and start again. This is accurate. And taken for granted in the US. Someone once remarked to me: "I think it's cool you can just pick up and go anywhere (on a huge scale)" - They were from the Netherlands.

Well they can move anywhere in the EU, visa free.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#186

Post by danny_codes »

mattnewton wrote: post #178
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

I mean I live in the US and people are getting persecuted right now for being a minority, being politically active, or being in legal trouble.

So not seeing a huge difference between liberal democracies and authoritarians.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#187

Post by krupan »

VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #155
ManlyBread wrote: post #142

>credit score Non-existent in the country I live in. There's a national registry of debtors and people end up there for a very good reason. >Linkedin, Amazon There's no reason to consider these to be essential services, I am not using either and I'm doing perfectly fine in life. >Instagram LOL >Uber, Airbnb There are several copycats, traditional taxis and hotels are still a thing and public transportation or your ow…

This is a predominantly American website with American users. Your experience is of little relevance here.

The author appears to be Chinese and the articles they have written on the site have something to do with China

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#188

Post by eldaisfish »

eloisant wrote: post #185
coro_1 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can always move to new town and start again. This is accurate. And taken for granted in the US. Someone once remarked to me: "I think it's cool you can just pick up and go anywhere (on a huge scale)" - They were from the Netherlands.

Well they can move anywhere in the EU, visa free.

Legally, yes. Practically, the EU still has borders and barriers. Language, pension systems, degree equivalence, etc.

Oh and also remember that the EU has freedom of movement for labour, not necessarily people. If you don’t have enough money, you can’t just move to another EU country and hope things work out.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#189

Post by graemep »

VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #152
graemep wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true. People living authoritarian worry about what they say, they self-censor out of fear, they defer to those in power (even at a local level), they accept a hierarchy of power rather than rights. I do not entirely disagree without, but lack of freedom does intrude into day to day life to some extent.

I live in the free and morally righteous West and I self censor all the time. Every single day. My beliefs would have me ostracized from communities and fired from my job.

> My beliefs would have me ostracized from communities and fired from my job.

but not landed you in prison or disappeared, I take it?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#190

Post by gipp »

mattnewton wrote: post #178
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

Sure; I think his point was that people much less likely to even notice/acknowledge the slide towards authoritarianism when their own individual experience isn't changing much. Not that it changes authoritarianism's moral standing.
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