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Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

mistral.ai

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Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#181

Post by jwitthuhn »

roboboffin wrote: post #69
syntex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The illussion of reasoning was terrible paper. 2^n-1 how it could fit in context size. I tried o3 and he gave me python script saying that inserting all moves is to much for context window. completely different results.

I think that their point was that the problem is easily solvable by humans without code, and shows the ability to chain steps together to achieve a goal.

Is it easily solvable by humans without code? I suspect if you asked a human to write down all the steps in order to solve a Tower of Hanoi with 12 disks they would also give up before completing it. Writing code that produces the correct output is the only realistic way to solve that purely due to the amount of output required.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#182

Post by msgodel »

oceanplexian wrote: post #137
baq wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: the parent has since edited out the flamebait. Maybe, or maybe when silicon valley was busy growing exponentially Europe was still picking itself up from the mess of ww2. Trying to blame a single reason is futile, naive and childish.

The US was out-innovating Europe a long time before WW2, we had faster, more extensive rail systems, superior high rise construction, earlier to electrification, invention of the telephone, modern manufacturing (Model T), invention of the airplane, the birth of Hollywood and modern motion pictures, the list goes on.

I think it's funny how the US, Canada, and Scotland/the UK all simultaneously claim to be the home of the telephone.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#183

Post by msgodel »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #59
atemerev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"EU is leading in regulation", they say. I don't know what they are thinking.

Honestly the US approach to AI is incredibly irresponsible. As an American, I'm glad that someone somewhere is thinking about regulation. Not sure it will be enough though: https://xcancel.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1922710969785917691#m

There's nothing the regulation could meaningfully hope to accomplish other than slow down people willing to play by the rules.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#184

Post by umbra07 »

boroboro4 wrote: post #174
umbra07 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, if consumers don't want it, then they can buy Android phones instead. > they were generally using it to screw consumers You understand that there were lots of people happy with Lightning? USB-C is a regression in many ways.

I want to have USB-C and I want to have iPhone. I’m very happy EU regulators took this headache off my shoulders and I don’t need to keep multiple chargers at home, and can be almost certain I can find a charger in restaurant if I need it. Based on the reaction of my friends 90% of people supported this change and were very enthusiastic about it. I have zero interest in being part of vendor game to lock me in.

Products are supposed to come with different tradeoffs. I want to have an Android and I want to have my headphone jack back. That doesn't mean that the EU should make that a law.

> Based on the reaction of my friends 90% of people supported this change and were very enthusiastic about it.

That is an absolutely worthless metric, and you know it.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#185

Post by pier25 »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #149

This doesn't really explain what "reasoning" means in the context of genAI, or how it's done by this product. Are there any good sources to learn more about what "reasoning model" means outside of marketing-speak?

It's pure marketing. See the recent paper by Apple called "The Illusion of Thinking".

https://ml-site.cdn-apple.com/papers/the-illusion-of-thinkin...

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#186

Post by distortionfield »

1propionyl wrote: post #129
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we sure more time butt in office equates to more productivity?

Yes, specifically when it comes to open-ended research or development, collocation is non-negotiable. There are greater than linear benefits in creativity of approach, agility in adapting to new intermediate discoveries, etc that you get by putting a number of talented people who get along in the same space who form a community of practice. Remote work and flattening communication down to what digital media (Slack, Z…

You’re being downvoted but you’re right. The number of people who act like a web cam reproduces the in person experience perfectly, for good and bad, is hilarious to me.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#187

Post by hmottestad »

pu_pe wrote: post #11

Benchmarks suggest this model loses to Deepseek-R1 in every one-shot comparison. Considering they were likely not even pitting it against the newer R1 version (no mention of that in the article) and at more than double the cost, this looks like the best AI company in the EU is struggling to keep up with the state-of-the-art.

With how amazing the first R1 model was and how little compute they needed to create it, I'm really wondering how the new R1 model isn't beating o3 and 2.5 Pro on every single benchmark.

Magistral Small is only 24B and scores 70.7% on AIME2024 while the 32B distill of R1 scores 72.6%. And with majority voting @64 the Magistral Small manages 83.3%, which is better than the full R1. Since I can run a 24B model on a regular gaming GPU it's a lot more accessible than the full blown R1.

https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Qwen-...

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#188

Post by iamnotagenius »

SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #135
arnaudsm wrote: post #18

I wished the charts included Qwen3, the current SOTA in reasoning. Qwen3-4B almost beats Magistral-22B on the 4 available benchmarks, and Qwen3-30B-A3B is miles ahead.

30-A3B is a really impressive model. I throw tasks at it running locally to save on API costs, and it's possibly better than anything we had a year or so ago from closed source providers. For programming tasks, I'd rank it higher than gpt-4o

[dead]

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#189

Post by umbra07 »

msgodel wrote: post #180
umbra07 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the government shouldn't be legislating that companies must use a specific USB connector. Realistically the legislation was only targeting Apple. If consumers want USB-C, then they can vote with their wallets and buy an Android, which is a reasonable alternative.

They shouldn't be forcing people to use patented Qualcomm technology to access cellular networks either but here we are. Realistically Apple's connector adds no value and if they want to sell into markets like the EU they need to cut that kind of thing out.

> Realistically Apple's connector adds no value

Like I said, usb-c is a regression from lightning in multiple ways.

* Lightning is easier to plug in.

* Lightning is a physically smaller connector.

* USB-C is a much more mechanically complex port. Instead of a boss in a slot, you have a boss with a slot plugging into a slot in a boss.

There was so much buzz around Apple no longer including a wall wort with its phones, which meant an added cost for the consumer, and potentially an increased environmental impact if enough people were going to say, order a wall wort online and shipped to them. The same logic applies to Apple forced to switch to USB, except that the costs are now multiplied.

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