VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles • Hacker News Board

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#181

Post by mulmen » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:24 AM UTC

jazzyjackson wrote: post #178

mulmen wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that requires cellular connectivity. It can and was accomplished using only wifi sync at home. Live traffic information is (was?) broadcast on AM radio.

was it ever AM? info I can find points to traffic info being encoded in FM broadcast, as "audio" but above audible frequencies, 57khz, same as any metadata you get with modern digital radio - station name, song name, artist name etc. https://www.mediarealm.com.au/articles/fm-rds-radio-data-sys...

Oh! Maybe it was FM. I always thought it was on the same band as the "Tune AM for traffic information signs" but as you say outside the audible frequencies. Regardless the point is that the relevant information can be broadcast publicly and does not require location or cellular connectivity to function. My 2010 BMW knew about traffic jams but had no cellular connectivity to my knowledge.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#182

Post by mulmen » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

bdangubic wrote: post #180

mulmen wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect the drivetrain components (including computers) to be essentially bulletproof and only the unnecessary components like infotainment and maybe the dashboard displays to even have the option of crashing.

you are 100% right in theory. in practice the car is the computer. when my 2014 tesla s rebooted while I was going like 85mph on the highway it is a moment I’ll never forget. the car is running but everything is dead, quiet, have no idea what the speed is, all systems are shut down, a/c is out (I was in the middle of a desert in Utah)… EVERYTHING feels wrong and every instinct you have tells you to pull over immediat…

Ok but how is this failure mode unique to an EV? Modern ICE cars are highly reliant on computers as well. Maybe even more than EVs since they have transmissions and timing and fuel injection and exhaust monitoring.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#183

Post by mogadsheu » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #177

Every satellite imaging company knows where they are.

Revisit frequency and spatial resolution aren’t high enough to meaningfully and uniquely identify vehicles without additional data.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#184

Post by martin_ » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #147

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution: Buy an old car...

modern cars are unfortunately much safer

I for one am grateful for that fact ;)

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#185

Post by spike021 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:39 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #152

spike021 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe my new car has a fuse you can pull to disable the remote telemetry. However, it disables some useful features, like being able to set valet mode from the Toyota app (useful because some dealer service departments will take cars joy riding) and track the car usage. it also tracks tire pressures. sure the tire pressure can easily be checked manually with my Slime gauge but having it on the phone is handy.

Both of those features were available on cars before cellular connectivity.

and?

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#186

Post by spike021 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:40 AM UTC

NewJazz wrote: post #157

spike021 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe my new car has a fuse you can pull to disable the remote telemetry. However, it disables some useful features, like being able to set valet mode from the Toyota app (useful because some dealer service departments will take cars joy riding) and track the car usage. it also tracks tire pressures. sure the tire pressure can easily be checked manually with my Slime gauge but having it on the phone is handy.

You can't see the tire pressure on the dash?

yeah, you can. but I work from home and don't drive every day. sometimes I want to make sure I don't have a slow leak or something.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#187

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:42 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #174

CatWChainsaw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm skeptical that it is. Happy Friday.

I rode in a 1948 Oldsmobile three days ago. No app needed. At this point the ignition switch is so worn the key is actually optional.

[deleted]

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#188

Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:48 AM UTC

mogadsheu wrote: post #183

mensetmanusman wrote: post #177

Every satellite imaging company knows where they are.

Revisit frequency and spatial resolution aren’t high enough to meaningfully and uniquely identify vehicles without additional data.

I doubt VW cares about real time locations of all their vehicles. Only government officials at the DMV care.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#189

Post by mulmen » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:50 AM UTC

spike021 wrote: post #185

mulmen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those features were available on cars before cellular connectivity.

and?

And that means Toyota is choosing to link those features to cellular connectivity.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#190

Post by bdangubic » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #182

bdangubic wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are 100% right in theory. in practice the car is the computer. when my 2014 tesla s rebooted while I was going like 85mph on the highway it is a moment I’ll never forget. the car is running but everything is dead, quiet, have no idea what the speed is, all systems are shut down, a/c is out (I was in the middle of a desert in Utah)… EVERYTHING feels wrong and every instinct you have tells you to pull over immediat…

Ok but how is this failure mode unique to an EV? Modern ICE cars are highly reliant on computers as well. Maybe even more than EVs since they have transmissions and timing and fuel injection and exhaust monitoring.

oh I don’t think it is, this thread was discussing EVs but yea, I don’t think it is unique to EVs. not sure how often on other cars you have to reboot (soft and hard) and when you do reboot what is “off” and what is “on” on any given modern car - I soft reboot couple of times per month at least (it is an OG tesla s, 10 years old now…)