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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#181

Post by reverendsteveii »

eru wrote: post #177
reverendsteveii wrote: post #150

bad angle shot here: >Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths >While the number of assisted deaths in Canada is growing, the country still falls behind the Netherlands, where euthanasia accounted for around 5% of total deaths last year. 1/20 != 5% ???

Perhaps it's something like 4.8% in Canada and something like 5.1% in the Netherlands? But yeah, that sentence doesn't make much sense.

I'm sure this is exactly the case. Assuming it is, then it's either so close it's not worth reporting on or so close it's worth reporting on accurately

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#182

Post by renewiltord »

niceice wrote: post #170

"For the first time, the report delved into race and ethnic data of those who died by euthanasia. Around 96% of recipients identified as white people, who account for about 70% of Canada's population. It is unclear what caused this disparity." Any good hypothesis about this?

Demographics in 75+ age group. It’s late here or I would have looked up in Stat Can before posting. But that’s where you should check.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#183

Post by tifik »

niceice wrote: post #170

"For the first time, the report delved into race and ethnic data of those who died by euthanasia. Around 96% of recipients identified as white people, who account for about 70% of Canada's population. It is unclear what caused this disparity." Any good hypothesis about this?

Could be longer life expectancy for particular demographics that are mostly white.

Or it could just be that 70% of people of all ages today are white, but 80 years ago it was a much larger proportion (I didn't think it would be 96% but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was).

This is pure speculation, I have no data to support either of these hypotheses.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#184

Post by 7thpower »

dogman1050 wrote: post #119

After watching my father die with COPD, it because obvious that euthanasia happens in the US all the time. He opted out of lung-reduction surgery and was ready to die. So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. How long can one live without water, a few days max? So that's what killed him. My sister-in-law who's a physician told me that's how it's typically done. I…

Yes, I think that is not well understood.

When my father-in-law passed, in a rural assisted living facility, we found they had stopped feeding him despite saying they were and our requests that they continue.

We were stuck in this uncomfortable position of not being able to move him somewhere else, being completely blindsided by his (bone and bladder) cancer and how quickly it progressed, and not knowing what standard of care to advocate for understanding that he was passing.

One of the things that was also frustrating is that when we would ask for more pain medication, they would refuse as it might lead him to stop breathing (I thought, ‘so what?’), yet they were making decisions that ultimately accelerated to his demise.

Looking back, I don’t know that ceasing nutrition was a bad choice, but it wasn’t their decision to make. When I talked to friends in healthcare they effectively gave me the ‘oh, you sweet summer child’ talk.

My FIL, while he could communicate, could not wait to be out of pain and I wish he had the agency to make the decision before having to go through endless pain in the delirium of opioids.

There are, of course, details I’m leaving out, but my general takeaway is that in at least some cases the euthanasia debate is not about whether the call is being made, but who is making the call.

That is not alone reason to support one side of the debate or another, but it is an important nuance that I was naive about until I witnessed it first hand.

Edit: what I described does not appear to meet the traditional definition of euthanasia, but I will leave the post in its original form and just clarify that I mean making decisions that hasten someone’s death either passively or actively.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#185

Post by 0xdde »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #150

bad angle shot here: >Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths >While the number of assisted deaths in Canada is growing, the country still falls behind the Netherlands, where euthanasia accounted for around 5% of total deaths last year. 1/20 != 5% ???

The first sentence of the article gives the Canadian percentage as 4.7%.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#186

Post by caseyohara »

darth_avocado wrote: post #153
guyzero wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had apparently expressed his intention before she passed. I do not know all the details and this is second hand, but he apparently had a plan.

I would’ve expected at least a waiting period longer than a week after a traumatic event. Of course I don’t know all the circumstances around it.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency.

It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and there is a 0% chance they are going to change their mind.

Yes, irreversible decisions warrant deep consideration. But denying a full grown adult control over their life decisions is cruel and unduly authoritarian.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#187

Post by eru »

gnfargbl wrote: post #76
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more important point is that even in a more normal palliative care situation, which previously may have involved a borderline illegal increase of drugs near the end to hasten and ease death, might now be recorded as an assisted death instead. So a more interesting stat might be the expected quality of life adjusted years that have been cut off by the assisted deaths. I'm not sure if QUALY can go negative but some m…

Negative QALY values do appear possible, according to https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S10983015106004... (via Wikipedia).

I'm not sure a link will contribute much? It's just the basic question whether some years (or days or whatever) are so awful that you are better off being dead.

In any case, the linked article says 'States worse than dead can exist and they would have a negative value and subtract from the number of QALYs.'

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#188

Post by drjasonharrison »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #17
ben30 wrote: post #13

Fifteen years ago, flying into Vancouver, a local told me charities would give homeless people one-way bus tickets there from colder regions of Canada to prevent winter deaths. No return tickets in spring. Calls into question what we consider "charitable" when the solution is just moving vulnerable people elsewhere. Worrying parallel: will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care an…

[flagged]

In Canada, while the hospital care is covered, the additional supplies and treatment are often paid for by the patient.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cancer-costs-report-1.7404064

"During more than two years of treatment, which included surgery to remove part of the colon as well as 12 rounds of chemotherapy, Percoco paid more than $4,000 out of pocket for prescription drugs, including medications to cope with the side-effects and complications. On top of that, there were costs for colostomy bags, which she had to restock every four days, bandages, physiotherapy sessions and osteopathic consultations, as well as travel and parking."

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#189

Post by brap »

ben30 wrote: post #13

Fifteen years ago, flying into Vancouver, a local told me charities would give homeless people one-way bus tickets there from colder regions of Canada to prevent winter deaths. No return tickets in spring. Calls into question what we consider "charitable" when the solution is just moving vulnerable people elsewhere. Worrying parallel: will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care an…

>will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care and treatment?

Yes, and I would argue that despite the awful connotations, this is not a bad thing.

It’s simply a fact of life that some people have more than others. Sometimes it’s not fair, but it’s still way better than any other social/economic alternative. And those who have more can afford better treatment, that is expensive.

So, assuming we can agree on this, would it not be better to offer some solution, even if not ideal? Remember, it may not be something that you would ever opt for, maybe because you have the means for better solutions, but for many this is a blessing compared to their only alternative which is to suffer. As sad as it may sound.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#190

Post by Jimmc414 »

darth_avocado wrote: post #136
guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

I wouldn’t call someone dealing with cancer and the loss of his wife sound of mind within one week of the loss.

Agreed, but requiring one's psychology be stabilized before they can die of despair seems to miss the point
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