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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#181

Post by tptacek »

dehrmann wrote: post #180
tptacek wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is issue polling. There are lots of problems with issue polling, but even when delivered well, the fundamental problem is it's not concrete . Poll people to see if they'd like the option to stop paying for health insurance: you'll get Assad numbers. Now write a ballot initiative for single payer, where customers see the tax price tag, and have to worry about losing their current private health insurance: the num…

I remember polling either done at the same time or the same pollster that found different approval ratings for Obamacare and the ACA. Its like dihydrogen monoxide vs water.

Right, but the point is (I'm belaboring) we don't have to rely on issue polling at all here, because has repeatedly made it to actual ballots, which are the votes that actually count.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#182

Post by huttyoop »

tptacek wrote: post #170
huttyoop wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why are you bringing it up, tptacek? You’re even replying this to a comment that literally contains “I agree with you”. It’s like stepping between your friends complaining about jet lag to talk about how your corner bodega raised the price of bubble gum. If you just want to talk about providers then write a screed on it. People will comment their opinions on the subject you want to discuss.

Because people are killing insurance company executives in the hopes of getting a maybe 5% savings break on their health insurance costs?

> Because people are killing insurance company executives

Then share an opinion on that.

> in the hopes of getting a maybe 5% savings break on their health insurance costs?

You were so close.

All you had to do was condescendingly presuppose a motive, and fabricate a statistic to make it about your desired topic again.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#183

Post by drewbug01 »

defen wrote: post #150
DrillShopper wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Was this guy uniquely evil, as far as health care executives go? Like...if more of them get murdered, will you just shrug and say "yeah they kinda had it coming"?

There’s an awful lot of wiggle room in the “more of them” phrase, so I suppose the only realistic answer is “it depends.”

But speaking more generally - I think a lot of people would, indeed, shrug. The US healthcare system is one of the most miserable parts of living in this country and virtually everyone has had to deal with it at some point. And whether or not they deserve the direct blame, insurance execs (and pharma execs, etc) directly profit from that misery.

I think a lot of people are not going to shed a single tear over events like this.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#184

Post by tptacek »

vundercind wrote: post #173
tptacek wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an argument that would be persuasive to someone who doesn't believe the voters in every state where this was proposed were successfully hoodwinked by "money"?

Hold on, we can come back to this, but: which states have held a vote on nationalizing (state-izing?) healthcare?

Vermont, Colorado, Washington.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#185

Post by tptacek »

ertian wrote: post #178
coldpie wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't either, but people feel this way about millionaires and healthcare execs for a reason, they're not just being cruel for the sake of it. Think about the reasons for it, and try to come up with a solution. That's a way more interesting discussion than getting mad about people being dumb on BlueSky or whatever.

People have built a frustrating system for themselves with a century of complicated and messy political decisions (and resulting regulations). They don't have the will or attention span required to solve the various problems via the slow moving & gridlocked political system. So, they take out their frustration on the highest profile participants in the system. Solutions? I'm worried that there aren't solutions. There…

There is really basic stuff that we're going to have to do no matter what that doesn't involve restructuring the system, like drastically increasing the number of practicing physicians, which is capped by (you guessed) Medicare, which sponsors residencies. But all we can talk about is payer structure because of a complete fixation on insurance companies as singular villains.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#186

Post by s1artibartfast »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #137
tptacek wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I'm a pretty engaged Democrat, but I'm asking: what reforms do you think are within the boundaries of acceptable to the median voter? Clearly single-payer is not. It couldn't even survive in Vermont.

as someone from VT, VT was way too small to do single-payer on it's own The whole point of single payer is to have a monopsony that can effectively negotiate with everyone else. For it to have a chance, they would have had to join with MA. I think the reform that would be acceptable to the median voter is a public option for Obamacare. Just let people select Medicare as an option instead of one of the private compani…

thats the option that I have always preferred, provided the opt in Medicare/medicaid option is provided at cost to the general public.

If set up this way, I dont see why anyone would reject it. At worst, it would be another option amongst many.

The poison pill would be if opt-in medicare was funded from taxes on the general public who were paying concurrently for their private insurance. Medicaid funding would continue to support the poor.

However, this would only be a start. The real problem with US healthcare is a lack of spending controls. European socialized healthcare refuses to purchase treatment if the cost/Quality of life improvement is too low.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#187

Post by Bilal_io »

NautilusWave wrote: post #162
potato3732842 wrote: post #7

The hate was always there. It's just now newsworthy.

The hate wasn't always there. Pent up frustration for the healthcare system precipitated as hate when an obvious target hit the news.

You get frustrated when your doctor is 30 minutes late. Being denied coverage by your insurance for something serious and expensive is a matter that causes hate.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#188

Post by s1artibartfast »

jmyeet wrote: post #84
apsec112 wrote: post #39

Political operative here. If you're wondering why healthcare reform has been so hard to get and so piecemeal, even though most Americans want it, the big reasons are: 1) any reform has to get past the Senate, and the Senate gives a lot of extra weight to states with conservative electorates. In 2009, this meant the pivotal Senators were right-wing Blue Dogs, an independent (Lieberman), and a former Republican (Specte…

The majority of Americans believe the Federal government should provide health care [1][2]. The current Democratic Party is essentially "Republican Lite", Republican with a happy face on it. Democrats as a whole are more interested in defeating progressives and leftists than they are in defeating Republicans. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-... [2]: https://thehill.com/policy/healthca…

The public is very dissatisfied with the current situation. However, they reject any solution put forward.

Approval is high for "Something Else" but low for the alternatives.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#189

Post by s1artibartfast »

vundercind wrote: post #176
s1artibartfast wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about murdering doctors who demand pay for treatment, citizens that vote against single payer, or people that fail to donate to your gofundme?

All of those are extremely different situations, so what are you getting at?

I see them as essentially the same. All of these people are choosing their financial interests over your health. People are dying from their inaction.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#190

Post by tptacek »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #186
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone from VT, VT was way too small to do single-payer on it's own The whole point of single payer is to have a monopsony that can effectively negotiate with everyone else. For it to have a chance, they would have had to join with MA. I think the reform that would be acceptable to the median voter is a public option for Obamacare. Just let people select Medicare as an option instead of one of the private compani…

thats the option that I have always preferred, provided the opt in Medicare/medicaid option is provided at cost to the general public. If set up this way, I dont see why anyone would reject it. At worst, it would be another option amongst many. The poison pill would be if opt-in medicare was funded from taxes on the general public who were paying concurrently for their private insurance. Medicaid funding would contin…

There are two broad concerns with public-option M4A:

* The resulting customer shifts will result in private insurance becoming more expensive or, worse, exiting some markets, which violates the requirement people have that, in the worst case, their current insurance remain accessible to them.

* The resulting customer shifts will drastically increase the cost of Medicare, threatening the existing program with benefit cuts.

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