Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

deprocrastination.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 225 posts

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#181

Post by adadadadadad »

LoganDark wrote: post #180
adadadadadad wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms. ADHD is the set of symptoms. The only reason people care about the term is because you can access drugs. > “The child often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities because she has ADHD and she has ADHD because she does not sustain her attention in tasks or play activities.” As Pérez-Álvarez (2017, p. 2) notes “the symptoms are the guarantee of the dia…

> ADHD is the set of symptoms. The formal diagnosis of ADHD, which is what I was referring to, is based on the presence of a certain set of symptoms defined by the DSM-V or ICD-11. ADHD itself, which the diagnosis aims to identify, is not the set of symptoms itself but rather the root cause of the symptoms. The symptoms point to the presence of some root cause which is ADHD.

If you have the symptoms, you have the disorder...a disorder which is only identified by the symptoms. Do you get it?

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#182

Post by corobo »

hoc wrote: post #160
corobo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a little silicone thumb ring I use for this. No idea why I bought a handful of them in the first place but they're useful for this sort of thing! If I'm wearing it, there's still work stuff on my todo list that needs doing today. Brings me back to the PC rather than coming in from a walk and doing a bunch of housework I notice on the way in haha. Hard to miss being on my hand, almost anything I could do while…

Great. I'll add that to my signaling items options. Makes me wonder why I see bringing my phone being a safer bet than bringing my hands :)

In all fairness the phone is a very good choice too!

It's likely the first port of call when procrastination tries to sneak in (which is exactly why I use it for medication reminders rather than a sticky note or something that might blend into the furniture after a day or two haha)

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#183

Post by adadadadadad »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #178
adadadadadad wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ADHD" is pseudo-science in my opinion. The impairment to life is certainly real. But the cause is unproven, and for ADHD and the medication, it must be present since birth...a brain defect...but we live in an incredibly distracting environment due to social media and all the societal change coupled with that. > For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperact…

Well, yeah: the lack of motivation is the problem. But here's the thing: just like a depressed person can't just "snap out of it", someone with ADHD cannot just make themselves get the motivation. Why? Because we can't remember that we need to. ADHD is primarily a working memory impairment. All brains have an autopilot mode, and an ADHD brain on autopilot thinks thousands of thoughts at once. When I am not medicated…

I haven't really heard about ADHD framed as a working memory impairment.

Because it does seem like an easy workaround via religiously following pomodoro - every 25 mins a reminder that you should look at your task list. It's hard to argue that someone can manage to ignore an alarm ringing every 25 minutes.

I thought of it more as you actually do know what you should be doing, but there is something a lot more interesting and novel that you prefer to be doing and the thought of reverting back to the task you should be doing without exploring this novel one feels like complete torture.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#184

Post by adadadadadad »

littlelady wrote: post #179
adadadadadad wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need deadlines where they feel shame if they fail. And they will do anything to avoid having them. To provide the necessary structure and disciplining as a partner is next to impossible in a relationship of equals. They need some external force to exert pressure, which is usually a strict boss and job, but usually they will just leave their job if the income is not needed. A lot of ADHD advice promotes being mor…

I cannot overstate how odious I find opinion. Yes, people with ADHD need structure and accountability. But they don't need more shame or punishment. Shame is malignant. It is an unproductive feeling that hinders people from seeking out accommodations that would help them. This idea of punitively shaming people with ADHD is doubly asinine, because people with ADHD often suffer from rejection sensitivity dysphoria[1],…

> I cannot overstate how odious I find opinion.

Yet...

> RSD isn’t an officially recognized medical condition. It’s also a condition for which there’s limited scientific research available.

> https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24099-rejecti...

---

> This idea of punitively shaming people...

It's more about ensuring they appreciate the severity of the deadline.

If I tell a non-ADHD person to try their best to meet the deadline, they might get it done or might not and need a little extra time.

If I tell an ADHD person to try their best to meet the deadline, they might have not started at all, and end up falling far behind, or start making excuses because they are captivated by another task.

There are so many times where fear of repercussions from an imminently looming deadline gave me the initial momentum to put everything else aside and channel my focus to deliver.

But every time this happens you want to say "I just need more time because I started late because of ADHD"...and if the boss says "sure that's okay, take your time"...the motivation dissipates and you are back to tasks piling up.

I can only conclude that ADHD people need a shorter leash regarding scope and stricter deadlines, and not a comforting presence to reduce the pressure.

I am very open to hearing criticism of this approach.

But I think it's actually cruel to not be tough with someone and let their performance drop to a point they have to be fired which is the inevitable consequence. If someone cannot deliver then they cannot be kept around. If someone has 6 months to prove themselves...do you think with less deadlines and less strict deadlines they will have more chance of success? I think it just adds more risk and stress to themselves.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#185

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

adadadadadad wrote: post #183
riehwvfbk wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah: the lack of motivation is the problem. But here's the thing: just like a depressed person can't just "snap out of it", someone with ADHD cannot just make themselves get the motivation. Why? Because we can't remember that we need to. ADHD is primarily a working memory impairment. All brains have an autopilot mode, and an ADHD brain on autopilot thinks thousands of thoughts at once. When I am not medicated…

I haven't really heard about ADHD framed as a working memory impairment. Because it does seem like an easy workaround via religiously following pomodoro - every 25 mins a reminder that you should look at your task list. It's hard to argue that someone can manage to ignore an alarm ringing every 25 minutes. I thought of it more as you actually do know what you should be doing, but there is something a lot more interes…

Are you a conservative or a republican? you sound like one. I am not being passive-agressive, just making a point that political beliefs have strong influence on attitude towards mental disorders.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#186

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

I was suffering from procrastination last 3 years. The reason was 1) burnout. 2) some biological health issues I did not know about. Once I fixed that it went away. No philosophy was needed. So no, no amount of incantations will help, if you are biologically unwell.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#187

Post by grvdrm »

xyzelement wrote: post #26

My first couple of weeks at Bridgewater I was diagnosed with a fear of failure - deep reluctance to set off on a journey unless I could see the entire path through to the other side. I thought that was a good way to be actually (keeps you safe from doomed endeavors) but obviously keeps you from progressing on things where the only way to figure out the path is to walk it. In retrospect it’s a form of anxiety. If you…

Disclaimer: by no means a pro at my thinking...

One thing you have to practice is the art (science?) of separating emotion from action. My historical crutch is suffering from the emotion of failure or anticipation of failure and not learning as much from that failure. And, what looks like failure at the start of something may in fact turn the other way. Life, process, things evolve somewhat out of your control.

That ties to my other point. I think it's important to learn to give up power/control. Try to look things with an objective lens. What can you do, what can't you do, where do you need help, and methodically tackle. Worry less about where the power and control comes from and do things that drive toward an outcome.

I'm practicing constantly!

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#188

Post by StefanBatory »

T_MacThrowFace wrote: post #132
StefanBatory wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is something I share too, I had similar experience. Faced with hard task, I ended up not even trying - penalty for failure was the same as one for not doing something.

But with the upside that it is technically unknown whether or not you actually could have pulled it off if you tried, and if every once in a while you manage to perform the impossible, that covers for 100 failures. People who don't care about their children don't care about this, of course. You have failed them simply by being a child. "Why didn't you just have better parents you stupid little brat, didn't anybody te…

It did mess up with my ego heavily. Because once in a while I would actually manage to push through anxiety and do something, and I'd succeed.

Unfortunately it made me quite narcistic, as I ended up with belief that I could always succeed, if only I gave in some effort - but as I never tried to do that in practice, I ended up at the top of Dunning-Kruger curve. High ego, no skills.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#189

Post by StefanBatory »

haswell wrote: post #161
StefanBatory wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is something I share too, I had similar experience. Faced with hard task, I ended up not even trying - penalty for failure was the same as one for not doing something.

The book "Learned Optimism" was a life changing read for me coming from this kind of background. It includes exercises that start to rewire your brain. Highly recommended.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#190

Post by havblue »

prometheus76 wrote: post #17
masto wrote: post #12

The oversimplification and promises that if you just buy their thing you'll have a distraction free life in 14 days really irks me. I struggled with this stuff for over 40 years. Only last year, after a disastrous crash, did I start learning about ADHD, which finally gave me the language and tools and access to support that I needed to start making a meaningful difference. Without the understanding that diagnosis gav…

It's the classic situation of someone without ADHD telling us "just focus!" or "you just need to write things down!" or "you're just lazy". I have ADHD, and I also do not have a sense of smell (lost it in a TBI when I was a teenager). I tell people, "you take for granted what it's like to have a sense of smell. It affects every moment of your day, catching your interest and directing your attention all the time. Imag…

I think for me I can think of several examples when my desire to avoid another broken relationship was what motivated me to do whatever it is that they care about before they get angry about it. For example I used to be bad about doing dishes and left them in the sink for too long, to the frustration of roommates. There was something in my brain at the time that dragged me to my room to be alone. I eventually forced myself to just do the work and the pathways for doing that chore formed. I "couldn't" do it at the time for some reason but I "can" now.

While I can relate that it isn't simply about laziness, I think people getting angry can simply be their way of saying that they aren't your psychologist and they expect you to do your share regardless of your mental state.

Post reply on HN