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"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#181
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a well respected magnet school for high school, so we had a lot of HS freshmen that were previously home-schooled. Then I majored in Physics in college, so we had a lot of college freshmen that were previously home-schooled. I came to the conclusion that while there is a strong correlation between home-schooled kids and poor socialization, it's almost certainly not as causal as most people assume. All the "…

There could also a be a self-selection bias. Kids who like to socialize might resist homeschooling even if their parents wanted it, because they want to be at school with their friends. On the other hand, "weird" kids might beg their parents to be homeschooled because school is so painful for them. So it would be too simplistic to say that homeschooling causes poor socialization. It could very well be the other way a…

There are also pretty strong influences on parents choosing to homeschool, which filters down the parents as well (and who the parents are has a huge impact on what the child's experience will be).

Obviously the parents who homeschool because they want to keep extreme control of their children's lives & ideas (like hyper-religious parents who don't want their children taught evolution, or getting ideas that a woman might want to do something other than marry & have children) won't be giving their children a good experience.

But the biggest thing that strikes me is that parents who themselves are succeeding in engaging the world at any kind of scale -- in making rich & fulfilling lives of their own -- will find it extremely hard to be responsible for so much of their kid's time.

Whereas the parents who would find it easiest are basically those who are already at home and have lots of spare time -- but what example does that give? And worse... if the parent's way to do something meaningful in the world is to raise a child who will do something meaningful (i.e., pass the buck, really), those expectations can put a huge strain on the child.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#182

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

well said, you don't get correct answers simply by reversing stupid ones.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#183
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the UK and I have the same reaction to most of these stories. Can it really be that bad? Is the American school system so dramatically different? I went to a high school which was not split by grade. I was called a "geek" or "boffin" (basically the regional equivalent of nerd) because I was often top of the class, or made fun of because I have mild scoliosis. I managed to keep a good group of friends though…

One of the big differences is just the size of the schools. I was in Ireland for 8th and 9th grade. The school I went to consisted of grades 6th-12th with a total of around 300 students, with 48 kids in my grade. My graduation class from high school back in the US was around 600. My high school consisted of 10th-12th grade with around 1800 students total. This difference in size makes a huge impact in the different c…

I went to a high school of >2500 in New Zealand and I found that with so many other people it was easy to find others that were like-minded. I'm sure some people were bullied but to me it barely registered - nothing at all like it's depicted in American TV shows or movies.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#184
This message that you will get out of your small town and meet likeminded people is a big one. However, why wait miserable years? I think even in a small town there are on average enough freaks so that you don't have to be lonely. The question is how to find and activate them. Also, some socialization might be acceptable even for freaks, for example "normal" clothing, showering etc.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#185
If you are considered "wiered" that means you probably also lack the social competence to know what is the definition of word "friend". so don't wory as far as you know you may have many friends, but wrongly think that you dont have any. and your enemy may be your best friend. as far as you know.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#186
I resonate with the article but I think the author only groks half the lesson.

And, "Fuck them" is rarely the solution.

It isn't being different, accepted, weird or yourself that is important. It is how well you can interact with other human beings. You can bang on about finding your niche or just being true to yourself but you are then following just another brand of conformity and group dynamics. The author himself realises this. He's in a gym, in this tale, with others he bonds with through social interaction and bonding (talking about sports, not pissing people off, joking about). What the author has stumbled upon is an understanding of the nuances of socialising and friendship.

I resonate with the post because like the author I was weird in school. I'm still weird as an adult. I had few friends (sometimes no friends) and would frequently fight. I was an outsider. Growing up didn't change many of those things (well, I don't have to live in a Lord-of-the-Flies style dystopia any more). Growing up helped me realise it isn't about who you think you are it is about how you interact with others.

I'm still an anti-social outsider but now I know how to make friends and get along with other people. Weirdness isn't something I wear as a badge of honour, it's just a factor of my personality. I can hide it to fit in. I can appear different to how I really am in order to get things done. You can be yourself, and you should with people you want to get close to. You have thousands of other people you will need to interact with to get things done, it is them that you have to be "less weird" for.

Now, I can bond with people who once upon a time would (and did) attack me on sight. Since then, I've sat around talking the gossip/sport/trivia/current events/reported speech topic that gets them excited over a beer or other social medium. Everyone loves to think there is some huge unfathomable difference between them and people that they don't get along with. There isn't, the only thing preventing you and anyone getting along is how well you can socialise.

It's the conclusion that I disagree with the author over. They are already practising the solution, his gym buddies are bonding with the kid and the kid seems to be learning. Most of us eventually learn how to interact with each other civilly, that's what growing up is about.

Eventually, almost all of us learn how to be part of one tribe or another. We are biologically programmed to find our tribe. So what's you favourite....

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#187
post #175

Good story. As a side note: why do men have to be so mind numbingly boring? I had the misfortune of hanging out with a bunch of guys I didn't really know recently and the talk was similar to that described here (sports, women, avoidance of anything actually interesting like religion or politics). It was so boring I just left and went back to work. As a gender, I think men have a lot to answer for in terms of conversa…

Hang out with different men, odds are they will talk about different things. Or, find sports and women more interesting.

It's quite unlikely that all men, everywhere, only talk about things that everyone really thinks are boring. It's also unlikely that everyone everywhere thinks discussing politics and religion is particularly interesting.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#188
The money line: You want to know what's weird? Hiding who you are just to have the company of people you don't even like. That's weird.

I was an athlete in high school, so early on I hung out with the athletes. Those in that group were not particularly enjoyable company, but I was too young to know what enjoyable company was.

When I finally stopped hanging out with athletes and took my proper place among the band geeks and drama nerds, that's when high school started to suck less (it always sucked, but it sucked a whole lot less when I discovered the type of people I liked being around).

Everyone needs validation. Everyone needs needs social acceptance. Everyone needs human affection. We're hard wired to require these things. But this can only truly come through introspection. You must conclude that you are a deeply flawed individual, and that those flaws don't separate you from your peers, but are actually the common ground.

The reason why you don't have any friends is because there is a failure to realize these common flaws. One side will often point this out: "You're weird. You're odd. You're not normal". Such phrases are not meant to affect any emotion in the target, but rather to hide the flaws of the speaker.

It is the truly enlightened individual that can recognize the speaker is as deeply flawed as they, and counter with affection and affirmation: "You're dead on. I'm crazy weird. You're beautiful/smart/funny/athletic, and I'm happy to be weird enough to say so"

How much better would high school be for everyone involved if high schoolers could just avoid going on the offensive to hide their own flaws, stop thinking about what makes them better than those around them in the ceaseless measuring of cocks, and start measuring and encouraging the best qualities in their peers?

Can such a (high school)world exist? I pray that it can.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#189

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

Yes, be happy to be different (as much as possible). But don't let it metastisize.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#190
Loved the story and it's very good advice indeed. I'd like to add one thing though. Having a "fuck them" or "they are losers" attitude (not saying the article advocates that) isn't really healthy. It might be great for a boosting your ego short term but it isn't constructive in the long run.

I don't think one should look down or harbor anger/resentment towards anyone. Not because it hurts them, but because it hurts you, and your happiness.

So my advice would be to try and understand why people act the way they do, why it probably is caused by some underlying problems/childhood whatever and if anything feel pity (so long it doesn't go into besserwisser territory) rather than resentment.

It's also great to be able to socialize with all kinds of people. They might not be exactly like you, they might not share all or any of your values but surely you can find something interesting in interacting and trying to understand them.

Another sign of personal growth is that you don't have to convince other people they're wrong or convert them to your views. If it's being discussed you can put front your opinion in a constructive manner and let it be up to them whether to agree or disagree. Also always be open minded about other people's viewpoints and try to understand where there coming from and if there might be something to it.

Sorry if I sounds a little fluffy or obivous but I feel that changing my own perspective on things like that has been very beneficial

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