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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#181

Post by giantg2 »

warner25 wrote: post #132
candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

Great comment. I've had an interest in suicide prevention for many years and I think you're right on the mark. I'm in the US military which has a suicide rate much higher than the general population[1], so prevention is a high priority, and hence my interest. A common thread is clearly that military service members are people who are willing to kill, and think differently about killing and death, and often have acces…

"think differently about killing and death"

I think this is a huge factor that feel under represented for the population in general. I'd imagine this is part of a factor for the higher farmer suicide rates as well.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#182

Post by asguy »

yowzadave wrote: post #19
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I've seen the kind of people who get pets I'm sorry, what? Isn't pet ownership pretty universally distributed across all classes? We have a dog in the white house.

> We have a dog in the white house.

Not anymore.

- https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/bidens-dog-commander-lon...

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#183

Post by maxwell »

carstenhag wrote: post #178
maxwell wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Peace in Europe is shattered. The former President of the United States has been indicted multiple times on dozens of felony charges. R&D on the killer bipedal robots + assassination drones + AI from your favorite sci-fi movies is nearing completion. Full Nineteen Eighty-Four -style surveillance totalitarianism has been rolled out in occupied China and is at the pilot stage in most western…

Only commenting on the chocolate, because I don't know much about the rest. There are probably hundreds/thousands of other brands that sell organic chocolate. I checked the chocolate bars I buy in Germany - 1&2: FairTrade, 3: Rainforest Alliance, 4: organic, "fair trade" without label. Many chocolate bars have the country name on it where the beans grew, for example "Edelbitter Perú 78%". I am pretty sure you can fin…

Fair point, didn't find many ethical options last I checked but should have revisited, now seeing e.g. https://www.slavefreechocolate.org/ethical-chocolate-compani...

Should have just pointed to the apparent failure of the Harkin–Engel Protocol, introduced in 2001, and Supreme Court victory for Nestle and Cargill in 2021 (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/supreme-court-rules-in-favor...)

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#184

Post by pempem »

johnla wrote: post #142
qohen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unfamiliar with Dorothy Parker[0] and/or that punchline, here's the poem, Resumé, that it's from[1]: Resumé By Dorothy Parker Razors pain you; Rivers are damp; Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp. Guns aren’t lawful; Nooses give; Gas smells awful; You might as well live. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Parker [1] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44835/resume-56d22415...

Dark comedic thought: if a prerequisite to suicide is to get your affairs in order and leave behind a clean house, suicide would be very low; ugh, too lazy to clean. I'll just live instead.

Dark, comedic, and so true!

Imagine some kafkaesque effort of bureaucracy

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#185

Post by hotnfresh »

flatline wrote: post #135
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #39

My wife is a vet. One big issue is that most people don’t have pet insurance. But they do have medical insurance. As a consequence they are completely surprised by the out-of-pocket costs of medical procedures. Hip surgery (to pick something at random) is hip surgery, even if it’s for a dog. It still costs thousands of dollars. But a significant portion of the population expects to pay what they would pay for insuran…

The cost of preserving life, human or otherwise, has skyrocketed. When I was a kid, it cost $25 for a vet visit and something like $100 for a minor surgical procedure. Adjusted for inflation those are probably about the same today, the difference being there were no major surgical procedures available for pets. Also, the vet did not carry $150k in student loan debt. A decade ago I had a kitten with heart arrhythmia.…

> Adjusted for inflation those are probably about the same today, the difference being there were no major surgical procedures available for pets. Also, the vet did not carry $150k in student loan debt.

Yeah, I remember it being "the dog has cancer? That sucks, let's give them some cheap drugs to keep them comfortable as it gets worse, and plan to put them down when that stops working." Not "let's do chemo". Dog-surgery or otherwise expensive human-like care for pets was like a Beverly Hills rich person thing for celebrities with risible relationships with their pets, not something normal people did. You'd maybe get a broken leg or whatever dealt with, but that was about it, and even that kind of thing would be a lot lower-tech than these days.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#186

Post by quickthrowman »

rcarr wrote: post #165
fishyjoe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not downvote you. It's barely related to the article because it is about suicide and you come in to tell an anecdote about how funny you find it that they use a certain word. Just completely tone-deaf. It's the word they use, nothing funny about it, and an article about suicide among vets is not the place for it. People having different viewpoints does not make you immune to criticism. You could just not talk,…

Complete horseshit. This isn't someone's funeral - it's a discussion forum. And even if it was a funeral, some people will crack jokes at them because that's how they cope. Do you think no-one told a joke at George Carlin's funeral? Do you think that soldiers don't crack jokes in the trenches because "it's not the appropriate place"? I'm absolutely fine with having my viewpoints criticised, what I'm not fine with is…

I suggest you take a break from HN for the rest of the day my friend, it’s not worth getting this upset over an internet discussion.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#187

Post by panzagl »

9991 wrote: post #33
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> no matter how much they are loved I don't buy it. If their kid needed a couple thousand dollars to live, a lot more people would be able to scrounge it up. If they can't do the same for their pet, maybe they actually do love their pet less ... and that's OK.

Replacement cost is less on a pet.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#188

Post by makeitdouble »

philomath_mn wrote: post #69
makeitdouble wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

So every pet owner without at least $10k set aside for pet emergency care is a bad owner. That describes 99% of pet owners. I agree people should plan for more pet-related costs than they do, but, as technology progresses, there doesn't seem to be a ceiling on the amount you _could_ spend to save a pet. In my case, we have always taken in rescue animals. So the choice is between leaving the pet at shelter or a life i…

I come at it from the angle that taking in a horse will costs you inordinate amounts of money upfront, and people are generally ok with it, and won't be crying to get a poney when they're already struggling to pay a mortgage.

If in practice owning a dog or cat will also cost 10k at times, it's only reasonable to take the same approach and consider owning a them as a pretty high luxury, until the costs effectively come down.

Or every pet owner gets to your level of dedication and will assist their pet and the vet when tough times come and hard decisions need to be made. I personally wouldn't have the guts so I'll stick with my goldfishes.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#189

Post by giantg2 »

NalNezumi wrote: post #143
candybar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, suicidal attempts are often impulsive, so any barrier (in this case literally) even if it's relatively easy to get around, reduces suicide rates. Here's another study, this time on firearms: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... > The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who d…

This makes me wonder more about the idea of legalizing assisted (pain-free) suicide, with the caveat that the process needs a lengthy evaluation time (background check for no coercion, mental evaluation etc). I wonder if it would have the opposite effect, reducing suicide rate by picking up the people so hopeless they would've just jumped a bridge/bought a gun if the option of peaceful suicide didn't exist.

I think Canada has a popular assisted suicide program. I'm not sure if anyone has done the research to see how it affects suicide rates or methods outside of the program.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#190

Post by makeitdouble »

freedomben wrote: post #63
makeitdouble wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

We already have a crisis of homeless/stray animals out there. I can't imagine how much worse it would get if we only allowed the 1% of the population with $10,000 or more to spare in case the pet needs surgery to own pets. Also suicides will go up. Pets are an important source of companionship and oxytocin/closeness for people who live alone.

This is a good point. Perhaps the direction should be more about subsiding pet care cost and moving towards fonancial support as part of the humans' medical insurance ?

Basically pet ownership would require either 10k on the side or registration and justification to get proper insurance.

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