Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

thisamericanlife.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 240 posts

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#181

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #40
Jun8 wrote: post #26

From a naive viewpoint: Why is all this reporting about factory conditions focus on Apple, i.e. Foxconn? Is there proof that factories operated by Foxconn are worse than the typical Chinese factory? Or is Apple pushing them to Draconian measures, e.g. guards with guns, child workers, etc.? How's this any different from any other Made in China electronics product? EDIT: The replies are aligned with what I was thinking…

It's not. A generous interpretation: nobody thinks about the branding on their Samsung phone or their LG television, but people feel a personal connection to Apple's brand (or, alternatively, are hit over the head with it every day). So if you're optimizing your story for relevance to a US audience (a perfectly valid thing to do, if you stay within the bounds of the truth), you naturally focus in on Apple.

[deleted]

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#182

Post by jaysonelliot »

twoodfin wrote: post #36
[deleted] wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Why is Fox "easy"? They've never, AFAIK, broadcast anything requiring a major retraction on the scale of CNN's Tailwind story or CBS and the "fake but accurate" Bush National Guard memos.

James O'Keefe.

His "investigative journalism" of ACORN was shown to be edited to the point of nearly complete fabrication. No retraction from Fox.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#183

Post by Steko »

untog wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.

When did he pick apart things in this story that seem true? This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great- there is a wealth of evidence. If you want something to watch, check out China Blue, for example. The point is that this will do damage to the existing, unchallenged evidence, because it'll have some kind of guilty by association attached to it.

"This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great"

It's funny how people want to whitewash how Daisey slandered Apple here. He wasn't speaking generically about Chinese factories -- the entire piece is built around a crucifixion of Apple. Apple, the bad Chinese sweatshop exploiter, that's what tens of millions of people who read the wave of publicity from this story took away from it. Each piece I've read has a few bits tacked on about "the rest of the industry" almost as an afterthought.

Maybe Apple's the worst and deserves to be raked over the coals. But if the truth is that Apple holds it's suppliers to higher standards and should be held up as an example for other companies well you wouldn't know it.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#184

Post by Steko »

bilbo0s wrote: post #162
Steko wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's probably sold enough tickets over the last 5 months in NY to retire on. Interestingly his show's run off broadway is scheduled through the 18th; anyone want to start a pool on that?

He can just rebrand it a comedy.

Macrumors reports that vegetable stands near the theater are running out of tomatoes.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#185

Post by janardanyri »

tptacek wrote: post #4
tptacek wrote: post #2

I'm a Chicago Public Radio member and just got this in my email. Wow: I’m writing to tell you that tonight, This American Life and Marketplace will reveal that a story that we broadcast on This American Life this past January contained significant fabrications. We’re retracting that story because we can’t vouch for its truth, and this weekend's episode of our show will detail the errors in the story, which was an exc…

Daisey responds: "It uses a combination of fact, memoir, and dramatic license to tell its story, and I believe it does so with integrity". Calling to mind Jack Shafer (now at Reuters, formally Slate's media critic) on the problematic nature of narrative journalism: http://blogs.reuters.com/jackshafer/2012/03/14/dismantling-t...

This response is telling.

Hypothetical Mike Daisey who takes pride in his decisions: "I use a combination of fact, memoir, and dramatic license to tell the story, and I do so with integrity."

Actual Mike Daisey who knows he's full of shit: "It uses a combination of fact, memoir, and dramatic license to tell its story, and I believe it does so with integrity."

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#186

Post by abalone »

gwright wrote: post #109
megaduck wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know because I've seen it. My wife and I used to live in China, and we did traveling in both the high and the low places. I can't speak to the particulars in Daisey's story (since I don't know which ones were made up), but the overall picture he painted sounded familiar. It's unquestionable that there are horrible working conditions in Chinese factories. That's the tragedy here. There's millions of awful wonderful…

And how would you compare the work in the factories to being a Chinese farm worker, for example? Why are millions choosing factories over farms? I think it is more important that there is a trend towards improved work environments and opportunities than bemoaning the fact that any particular work environment isn't as good as some cushy 1st-world white-collar job.

Except when cushy 1st world jobs move to high-repression countries with few worker rights, it's trending the other way.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#187

Post by rhizome »

beatle wrote: post #163
rhizome wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they're making their way in the world just fine despite their histories, rendering any imaginary cosmic retribution impotent?

Big difference. James Frey lied about his own personal experience and Henry Blodget was involved in securities fraud. They are relatively unknown outside their industry. Mike Daisey told lies that he presented to news organizations, blogs, etc. as facts -- for money and self-promotion at the expense of a well respected company. CNN, NYTimes, The Washington Post, etc. wrote articles based on Mike Daisey's lies. In my…

The public at large has a very short memory. Dan Rather was different: he stuck to his guns rather than dive for the exit by calling it art.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#188

Post by _delirium »

tptacek wrote: post #40
Jun8 wrote: post #26

From a naive viewpoint: Why is all this reporting about factory conditions focus on Apple, i.e. Foxconn? Is there proof that factories operated by Foxconn are worse than the typical Chinese factory? Or is Apple pushing them to Draconian measures, e.g. guards with guns, child workers, etc.? How's this any different from any other Made in China electronics product? EDIT: The replies are aligned with what I was thinking…

It's not. A generous interpretation: nobody thinks about the branding on their Samsung phone or their LG television, but people feel a personal connection to Apple's brand (or, alternatively, are hit over the head with it every day). So if you're optimizing your story for relevance to a US audience (a perfectly valid thing to do, if you stay within the bounds of the truth), you naturally focus in on Apple.

I think it's demographics-related as well; Apple owners are more likely to be vaguely left-ish, interested in sustainability and fair trade, etc., than a typical Dell owner is. Same reason imo that Starbucks has more image problems with coffee sourcing than Dunkin Donuts does, because Starbucks customers as a demographic care more about things like coffee sourcing, or at least are more sensitive to hearing complaints about it.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#189

Post by ugh »

MartinCron wrote: post #149
tomjen3 wrote: post #126

Are they still worth listening to?

With very few exceptions, everything from This American Life is worth listening to. I would still listen to this, as not everything he said was fabricated, but I wouldn't file away anything I heard as objective fact.

It’s a well told story, it’s good radio. You can definitely see the appeal of it as a monologue. But it was presented as fact and is not, not completely. I would recommend listening to both the original show and the redaction back to back, they are both very powerful and well made.
Post reply on HN