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This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

thisamericanlife.org

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Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#31

Post by tptacek »

eli wrote: post #29
VMG wrote: post #13

from http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/ieconomy/acclaimed-ap... : I pressed Cathy to confirm other key details that Daisey reported. Did the guards have guns when you came here with Mike Daisey? With each question I got the same answer from Lee. “No,” or “This is not true.” Daisey claims he met underage workers at Foxconn. He says he talked to a man whose hand was twisted into a claw from making iPads. He descri…

This is the thing that really bugs me. It was a well told story. I can even buy that it gets at a larger truth (even if the details are exaggerated or even invented). But then don't pretend like it's 100% literal truth. And then TAL made such a point of the fact checking when they broadcast their version. Oof.

A very- well- told current events story should generally make you suspicious. Humans have a bias towards narratives that is easy to exploit, sometimes without even meaning to.

With a great deal of effort it is possible to craft moving narratives about events that happened after the facts of a story have settled. But when a story is breaking through the lens of a riveting narrative, start worrying.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#32

Post by stephencanon »

carguy1983 wrote: post #25

Anyone who's ever spent more than a couple days in China (or HK, or Singapore, or Taiwan, really) can tell you that very, very little of what you see published about China/Chinese people in the western media is accurate. Much of it is hyperbole or selective truths or just downright fabrications. It's designed for a western audience and plays on assumptions and stereotypes that exist of China/Chinese people - apart fr…

Very much true. I'm constantly amazed at the beliefs that people in the US and EU have about day to day life in China. In my (admittedly limited) experience, in the cities, it's a lot like day to day life in any western country. In extremely poor rural areas, it's somewhat different, but that's because of the extreme poverty, not because it's China.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#34

Post by tptacek »

megaduck wrote: post #22

What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. Chinese factory conditions are often horrible, and there's often a blatant disregard for human life and dignity. Mr. Daisey did a pretty good job of conveying these ideas in a way that well-heeled westerners could understand at a gut level. However, his pursuit of storytelling over journalism is going to…

What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#35

Post by peterwwillis »

I'm all for journalistic integrity, but it sounds like all the important facts of the story were at least based on actual events and the rest was dramatic license to make the piece resonate emotionally. I think dedicating a whole show just to explaining the discrepancies is a little overboard and as a listener i'm not interested in spending that much time just for them to say "some of the things in the story were inaccurate". A simple 5 or 10 minute explanation and a long-winded piece online would have sufficed.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#36

Post by twoodfin »

[deleted] wrote: post #28
pkulak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just writing that email at all puts This American Life in very small journalistic company.

[deleted]

Why is Fox "easy"? They've never, AFAIK, broadcast anything requiring a major retraction on the scale of CNN's Tailwind story or CBS and the "fake but accurate" Bush National Guard memos.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#37

Post by zipdog »

Jun8 wrote: post #26

From a naive viewpoint: Why is all this reporting about factory conditions focus on Apple, i.e. Foxconn? Is there proof that factories operated by Foxconn are worse than the typical Chinese factory? Or is Apple pushing them to Draconian measures, e.g. guards with guns, child workers, etc.? How's this any different from any other Made in China electronics product? EDIT: The replies are aligned with what I was thinking…

Foxconn apparently has almost 1 million employees in its Chinese factories, so its significant enough in its own right, but I suspect its also a shorthand for all Chinese factories (as McDonalds once was for all fast food).

Foxconn makes a lot of products other than Apple, but focusing on Apple products guarantees that most of the target audience will knowlingly own a Foxconn-made product.

As well, I suspect Foxconn allows greater access to its factories than other Chinese manufacturers (and my guess is conditions there are probably better than the median factory)

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#39

Post by chrisrhoden »

easterisle wrote: post #21

An interesting coincidence - NPR is underwritten by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I wonder if Gates helped fund this show in particular?

Nope - This American Life is in no way affiliated with NPR (other than that they are often carried on the same stations.) This American Life is produced by Chicago Public Radio and distributed by Public Radio International. Lots of TLAs there, but no NPR!

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#40

Post by tptacek »

Jun8 wrote: post #26

From a naive viewpoint: Why is all this reporting about factory conditions focus on Apple, i.e. Foxconn? Is there proof that factories operated by Foxconn are worse than the typical Chinese factory? Or is Apple pushing them to Draconian measures, e.g. guards with guns, child workers, etc.? How's this any different from any other Made in China electronics product? EDIT: The replies are aligned with what I was thinking…

It's not. A generous interpretation: nobody thinks about the branding on their Samsung phone or their LG television, but people feel a personal connection to Apple's brand (or, alternatively, are hit over the head with it every day). So if you're optimizing your story for relevance to a US audience (a perfectly valid thing to do, if you stay within the bounds of the truth), you naturally focus in on Apple.
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