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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#181

Post by makeitdouble »

itvision wrote: post #179

1. Unfulfilled expectations dictated by the society around you - since we are herd animals, that runs deep below our consciousness and exhausts us. To deal with fatigue people start to look for ways to calm down this part of the brain, ergo substances. 2. Problems you cannot resolve and cannot stop thinking about. Again, closely related to the previous issue. That's it. No need to write 25 long paragraphs about that.

Asking Tolstoi to not write 25 paragraphs about it is a tall order.

Otherwise, yes, we seriously need more harmless and easily maneageable substances to calm down consciousness/societal brain. This is an issue that we'll keep having a long as we live in societies.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#182

Post by moffkalast »

dalbasal wrote: post #173
jalapenos wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one big reason, but the other is numbing bad feelings, which I think is a more interesting field, especially since it often blurs into the social bit. Indeed, for the social aspect, everyone is already fully aware it's not needed, and that they can have fun socialization without it, because of their childhoods. I think the biggest reason alcohol is used is, to put it bluntly, how painful life is. As the child…

> Indeed, for the social aspect, everyone is already fully aware it's not needed, and that they can have fun socializations without it, because of their childhoods. Sure... you can also learn everything a Stanford class teaches online. You can find alternatives for the networking aspects, etc. Still... universities tend to be how people do this. You can bodybuild without a gym. Indomitable willpower & a DIY ethic are…

Are we, arguably a bunch of antisocial nerds posting to an obscure extremely-online forum, really making theses about how hard socialization is for the average person? This is like a plumber talking about art history. We're out of our depth to a hilarious degree.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#183

Post by medo-bear »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

I think culture toward drinking is the determining factor. In my culture we are brought up around wine, heavy spirits, and beer. There is no such thing as comming of age by drinking yourself stupid as in UK, US or Australia for example. Intoxication is considered VERY bad form (embarassing). Usually when people feel they are becoming intoxicated they will excuse themselves and go home.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#184

Post by Scarblac »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Alcohol by itself is tasteless though. And alcohol-free beer is getting better at very high speed. Keep trying it every now and then, you'll be surprised.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#185

Post by moffkalast »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #152
jalapenos wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one big reason, but the other is numbing bad feelings, which I think is a more interesting field, especially since it often blurs into the social bit. Indeed, for the social aspect, everyone is already fully aware it's not needed, and that they can have fun socialization without it, because of their childhoods. I think the biggest reason alcohol is used is, to put it bluntly, how painful life is. As the child…

Live isnt very painful for me. Still enjoy a beer a bit too much. When I'm super happy and then have a beer it just adds to it. It also can help me relax if I'm working to much. One can argue it's not needed, but at times nice.

I'm pretty sure Tolstoy isn't talking about a weekly beer, but the Russian type of alcoholism of downing an entire bottle of vodka every five minutes.

See the wiki:

> According to a 2011 report by the World Health Organization, annual per capita consumption of alcohol in Russia was about 15.76 litres of pure alcohol, the fourth-highest volume in Europe.

> Alcoholism has been a problem throughout the country's history because drinking is a pervasive, socially acceptable behaviour in Russian society

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#186

Post by lotsofcows »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

"makes it easier to socialize ... even though alcohol is bad in many ways"

Isn't this justification you bring your activities into harmony with conscience?

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#187

Post by yung_steezy »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Alcohol-free beers have got a lot better in the past 10 years

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#188

Post by senko »

danwee wrote: post #161
BTinfinity wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does the sun: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/sun-safety.htm But the sun, like alcohol, isn't so bad in moderation

What an argument. Sun: can I live forever in a cave so I don't get any sunlight? No, you can't (in practical terms). But you can use sunscreen and you can limit the number of hours you get exposed to sun (don't be a dick and lay down on the beach 5h straight during hot summer days). Problem fixed. Alcohol: can I live forever without drinking any alcohol. Yes, you can. Problem fixed.

Since you completely ignored the parent's valid point (many things that are in fact healthy for you can also cause cancer if overdoing, so the phrase "may cause cancer" by itself is not a valid argument), here's why your own argument has no merit whatsoever:

> Alcohol: can I live forever without drinking any alcohol. Yes, you can. Problem fixed.

No you can't. Nobody lives foverer.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#189

Post by icoder »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Absolutely agree with the taste aspect. I (male) went 0% when my gf went off of birth control and kept it that way throughout pregnancy until now (baby's 9 months) and I certainly miss some of the tastes (beers, wines, liqueur). My luck is that I enjoy drinking Heineken 0.0 and most of the 0.3%/0.5% IPA's they sell now (at least here, Netherlands). As for 0% alternatives for wines and liqueur, they haven't come close to me yet to enjoy them.

For me, there's nothing 'principal' about it btw, it just works, for now. The upside is of course no negative effects (ie hangover) and much less threshold to open one, even on the rare occasion we have a warm meal during lunch time (I work from home).

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#190

Post by fastball »

Scarblac wrote: post #184
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Alcohol by itself is tasteless though. And alcohol-free beer is getting better at very high speed. Keep trying it every now and then, you'll be surprised.

Many of the compounds / tastes in alcoholic drinks are byproducts of the fermentation process, even if the ethanol itself is tasteless.
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