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Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
181–190 of 264 posts
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's against the guidelines to point out moderation decisions. But it's relevant to the point I'm making. This is a thoughtful, carefully-worded argument that has been repeatedly upvoted and downvoted (the downvotes seem to come in pairs -- admin action?) The moderation of this comment allows anonymous people, lurking in the shadows, to make decisions about what other people read, with no accountability or consequenc…
It's far more likely the majority of users just are interested in these comments and don't want to see them, so don't, than the moderators are actively downvoting your comments, and many others, throughout the day. Those that are interested, for whatever reason, tend to have showdead enabled (I do). It's a bit of a "opt to what you want to see" system, not a "you only get our filter" system. The hard part is convinci…
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Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#183I'm sure there must be some back story here. What are these people's concerns? They seem to believe that HN is a bastion for harassment. Of all the forums I read, this seems the most benign by a large margin.
My opinion: HN has a particular culture and attitude to discussion that can be grating for non-users. One example: HNers tend to approach topics as if they have a solid grasp on the context of a matter, and are often negative, hence dang's plea against 'middlebrow dismissal.' Another example: the common practice of leading rebuttals to a comment with "No. \n" While that's OK here, there are a lot of people who would…
I use that leading "No" as a marker for comments I can safely ignore. I think there's a fair chance the author lacks enough humility for an honest reflection on their position if they think it's appropriate to start their contribution to a discussion with a single paragraph of "No." It's somehow a more grating version of "well ackshually".
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's far more likely the majority of users just are interested in these comments and don't want to see them, so don't, than the moderators are actively downvoting your comments, and many others, throughout the day. Those that are interested, for whatever reason, tend to have showdead enabled (I do). It's a bit of a "opt to what you want to see" system, not a "you only get our filter" system. The hard part is convinci…
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I think you flipped a right/left handed towards the end, but I follow what you're trying to say. The thing is most don't believe in a right where everyone has to listen to anything said with equal opportunity. It definitely is a tyranny of the majority, but that doesn't mean a tyranny of the minority, where anything said should get equal exposure regardless of how unpopular it is, is inherently more correct, or necessarily better.
That's why "The hard part is convincing others what you want to say is what they want to see here." It's not that they need to read everything, it's that they need to see those things they typically want to ignore as something worth them spending time on. No amount of moderation will make people spend time reading things they aren't interested in reading. Part of this is you end up with communities with different focus, and that's usually the way these kinds of differences co-exist in the same world at scale. Once the communities get large enough, they are in some way forced to find neutral ways to interact. Typically this happens more in the real world than on the internet.
The only time this really breaks is when the divider isn't related to content, rather some arbitrary attribute unrelated to it. E.g. if a conversation about the best quality paints ignores someone because of their handedness. The content of what they were saying had nothing to do with the exclusion so people want to protect against those kind of exclusions. The same feeling does not extend to those that want to bring a content reason for exclusion into the conversation, e.g. someone that constantly talks about how paint is a conspiracy by $BigCorp and can't talk about paint without always bringing it up. In that case the person needs to find people interested in talking about $BigCorp paint conspiracies, or a better way to engage others, not a moderator to force people to listen to them. If they do get the latter, people will just stop showing up... not suddenly start listening.
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is enough to make me never touch Asahi Linux. What a childish game for a Linux distro? How dare someone link to their website without their approval...because that is totally how the internet works?? ffs.
What about robots.txt ? lots of sites have preferences on how you access them Paywalled articles are posted here everyday Why not respect the site owners wishes ?
HN types traditionally have a hard time with the distinction between things they SHOULD do and things they have a RIGHT to do.
"Why not respect the site owners wishes ? "
The answer, overwhelmingly with the HN demographic, is "because we don't HAVE to."
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#186We got complaints from users about sites punishing HN referrers so I tried to oblige them, the same way we do other user requests. At the moment I feel caught in a double bind because there are complaints no matter what we do. I'm in a workshop today and can only check HN on breaks, so I can't properly read this thread yet. I'll return to it later, probably this evening. Edit: I think I agree with the users arguing t…
Don't budge; noreferrer is absolutely the right call.
I would go further: noreferrer should be the default. Alternatively, let each user configure it, as a privacy option.
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#187As far as the thread goes, the author sounds as though they are a child throwing a tantrum. In the original OpenGL thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36212674 there seems to be some discussion as to why the author hates HN, i.e. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36229753 quoted here: > It's not really all that much of a moral conundrum. Marcan's belief - expressed a number of times on his Mastodon - appea…
Thanks for explaining it. I don't care whether Lina is or is not a Marcan persona and don't think anyone should (which I try to propagate here).
But what a counter-productive reaction. I know it hurts (and that this is easy to say), but I believe that it would be much more effective to explicitly mention it and respectfully ask people to shut up rather than doing ... this.
Before they (at worst) casually disrespected him/Lina, now they largely at least mildly dislike them. I don't think much was gained here at all.
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't budge; noreferrer is absolutely the right call.
I would go further: noreferrer should be the default. Alternatively, let each user configure it, as a privacy option.
On one hand, social media sites tend to want to tell the target site "we brought you there" for some pretty traffic statistics and monetization. On the other hand, I seriously doubt HN, the news site of a VC company, actually takes any money from that.
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
It uses a CSS rule that checks if you have visited the link to submit on hacker news. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503368406970051
wait so you can detect if any of your visitors visited any link before? isn't that a huge privacy risk?
It's probably not being done here , but it's possible to do. The CSS rule is processed in your browser, so it doesn't actually tell the server if you've been to the link, but in theory a website could have some javascript that tries to detect if the CSS rule was activated.
Re: Hacker News evading criticism by selectively adding noreferrer to certain links
#190We got complaints from users about sites punishing HN referrers so I tried to oblige them, the same way we do other user requests. At the moment I feel caught in a double bind because there are complaints no matter what we do. I'm in a workshop today and can only check HN on breaks, so I can't properly read this thread yet. I'll return to it later, probably this evening. Edit: I think I agree with the users arguing t…
Marcan alleges that he sent you an E-Mail explaining the redirection with specific criticism about HN's moderation (https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759) and that your only response was adding the rel=noreferrer.
Is this true? Could you address his points of criticism?