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Look, I spent 5 years trying to work with Pharo. Not a few minutes. Yeah, I don't care about Pharo anymore . At all. That's because of what I've been through with it and its community. So please stop telling me I'm lazy, entitled, or that I "don't care after a few minutes". I've been giving Pharo chances for years - it just never got any better. I'm mentioning Cincom (no affiliation) Visual Works over and over again.…
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Look, I spent 5 years trying to work with Pharo. Not a few minutes. Yeah, I don't care about Pharo anymore . At all. That's because of what I've been through with it and its community. So please stop telling me I'm lazy, entitled, or that I "don't care after a few minutes". I've been giving Pharo chances for years - it just never got any better. I'm mentioning Cincom (no affiliation) Visual Works over and over again.…
"In Pharo, you can easily replace an object with another one. All references to the old object in your running program will be replaced by references to the new object." This sounds like global mutable state hell.
I wish having to debug this onto the person who downvoted my comment without adding to the discussion. This is worse than singletons that - in all their glorious capacity to create tight coupling between unrelated parts of your application - are at least guaranteed to keep their identity after having been constructed and can thus provide some sort of sane exit path by keeping track of changes made to their state and…
Perhaps asking why someone might need to do that would have prompted a more informative response.
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Look, I spent 5 years trying to work with Pharo. Not a few minutes. Yeah, I don't care about Pharo anymore . At all. That's because of what I've been through with it and its community. So please stop telling me I'm lazy, entitled, or that I "don't care after a few minutes". I've been giving Pharo chances for years - it just never got any better. I'm mentioning Cincom (no affiliation) Visual Works over and over again.…
In case you haven't found this mailing list https://lists.cs.illinois.edu/lists/info/vwnc
But I did try to get commercial license, once. I had a project and a client for it, and a seemingly ideal use case. However, I wasn't able to sell the client the kind of licensing scheme Cincom wanted (they weren't unreasonable, just not what the client was willing to have). I ultimately abandoned the idea. Still, even knowing that I'm just a solo developer that's not going to earn them much, my contact with an account from Cincom was very pleasant and helpful. I saw the changelog for the next version of VW - there was a lot of really nice stuff there! Welcome fixes, improvements in many important packages, new functionalities - the product is evidently alive and getting better, but there was one thing missing. There were No. Breaking. Changes. I could reasonably expect my app to work if I built with 8.x version and later upgraded to 9.x. Can you imagine this?
Cincom is, of course, a company targeting big corporations - a for-profit organization, and the most important part of VW is closed source. If Cincom dies, VW will probably also die, along with my projects. It's a risk, and it's not ideal. The fact that the PUL version is 6 years old at this point also isn't nice. And, above all, I don't wear suits and neckties. So, I'd really prefer fully open source Smalltalk (the only reasonable alternative, Smalltalk/X, also has the compiler distributed only as a binary blob) Unfortunately, Pharo simply cannot be that Smalltalk for me.
To the dead sibling commenter: sure, I don't event want anybody to care. I'm writing all this for my own satisfaction, so please, just do your job of not caring properly and ignore it all.
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In case you haven't found this mailing list https://lists.cs.illinois.edu/lists/info/vwnc
I didn't, but isn't this for educational use only (I'm guessing, I can't access the archive of the list)? Cincom seems to offer separate license for students and teachers, I'm unfortunately unaffiliated with any educational institution :( But I did try to get commercial license, once. I had a project and a client for it, and a seemingly ideal use case. However, I wasn't able to sell the client the kind of licensing s…
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squeak is very similar to pharo (which is based on squeak) but pharo is a lot more user-friendly and looks nicer. they are both smalltalks - i agree that pharo trying to pretend otherwise is a bit strange.
Because in a similar vein to Dr. Scheme => Raket, Pharo has moved from its raw Smalltalk roots.
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Why does this seem so common in niche projects like this one? I often see GitHub repos that seem very interesting and even quite liked but as a newcomer you're just supposed to figure everything out blindly by yourself. P.S: Thanks for saving me the time to download and try out Pharo.
why should people spend their time trying to convince you of the value of their project? they already know if it's valuable; why should they be interested in your opinion? if it's a commercial product, they might get your money, but most projects on github aren't
And that worked "got curious, downloaded and installed it" but then hit a bug "Lots of things to click on, and no text editor".
We can see that they are trying to explore using the knowledge they already have, as we might expect.
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Look, I spent 5 years trying to work with Pharo. Not a few minutes. Yeah, I don't care about Pharo anymore . At all. That's because of what I've been through with it and its community. So please stop telling me I'm lazy, entitled, or that I "don't care after a few minutes". I've been giving Pharo chances for years - it just never got any better. I'm mentioning Cincom (no affiliation) Visual Works over and over again.…
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This has been a problem before:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32121722 (July 2022)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31418768 (May 2022)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31418760 (May 2022)
I'm not going to ban you right now because I didn't see other cases of this in your recent history, but please fix this going forward so we don't have to.
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Look, I spent 5 years trying to work with Pharo. Not a few minutes. Yeah, I don't care about Pharo anymore . At all. That's because of what I've been through with it and its community. So please stop telling me I'm lazy, entitled, or that I "don't care after a few minutes". I've been giving Pharo chances for years - it just never got any better. I'm mentioning Cincom (no affiliation) Visual Works over and over again.…
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: This kind of thing has been a problem before:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33024799 (Sept 2022)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22714938 (March 2020)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11301279 (March 2016)
Please review the rules and stick to them from now on.
p.s. I appreciate your love for Smalltalk but if you express it using swipes and attacks, you're actually discrediting it to less knowledgeable readers (i.e. most of us). It's not in your interest to turn people off of something you love, so you should follow the rules out of self-interest too.